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Everlasting Star Community > The experts' lounge > Marilyn's mysterious death > General discussion
Fav
'Three years after Marilyn's death, in 1965, Joe Dimaggio stood in a ceremonial lineup for baseball hero Mickey Mantle at New York's Yankee stadium. Robert Kennedy came along the line, smiling and shaking hands. Rather than shake Kennedy's hand, Dimaggio quickly backed away.' Quote source - Goddess The Secret Lives Of Marilyn Monroe.

Even though some still dispute it, in my mind Marilyn did have relationships with both JFK and RFK. Whether Dimaggio knew this or not he certainly didn't have any high regard for Robert kennedy and never forgot how they had treated her. However I do think the RFK was a totally different kettle of fish to his brother ie he wasn't completely heartless. Even though Robert Kennedy was given an alibi by John Bates in San Francisco there were countless witnesses that placed him in Los Angeles on the day she died. Did Bobby visit her that day? Did he visit her twice - once in the day and once in the evening after a desperate call from Marilyn? What about the delay in calling a doctor or an ambulance? Was it to allow him to get out of town by helicopter so as not to be caught up in the ensuing circus?

Me - I don't believe he actually had anything to do with her death. Maybe it is the optimist in me. However there are those who do. What do you think? Was he there or not?
mels
QUOTE(Fav @ Jul 9 2004, 09:07 PM)
'Three years after Marilyn's death, in 1965, Joe Dimaggio stood in a ceremonial lineup for baseball hero Mickey Mantle at New York's Yankee stadium.  Robert Kennedy came along the line, smiling and shaking hands. Rather than shake Kennedy's hand, Dimaggio  quickly backed away.' Quote source - Goddess The Secret Lives Of Marilyn Monroe.
[snapback]57009[/snapback]



Well...

I do think that Marilyn could have had an affair with both brothers. I don't think it could have been remotely serious with JFK, all I can picture between the two of them is sex, period. I do think that Marilyn could have been closer to Robert though. Whether they were in a relationship or not, I think it's possible that they were good friends.

Now... Was he at Marilyn's that day?... I don't think so. I really don't, even if the alibies sound a bit fishy. I once thought the Kennedies were responsible for Marilyn's death but that's something I hardly believe now.

I have to check all the messages that were posted today and then I'll try to come back and post a couple of facts regarding RFK's schedule and alibies.

This quote you posted is interesting... But couldn't have Joe backed away just because he didn't like the way the Kennedies were with Marilyn. Actually all the Kennedy and such smala that Marilyn was seeing in the 60s. I think Joe blames them all for making Marilyn suffer. It doesn't necesseraly mean he didn't want to shake hands with Kennedy because he thought he had killed Marilyn, but maybe it simply means that he despised Kennedy anyways.
What do you think?
Val
mels wrote:

QUOTE
But couldn't have Joe backed away just because he didn't like the way the Kennedies were with Marilyn. Actually all the Kennedy and such smala that Marilyn was seeing in the 60s. I think Joe blames them all for making Marilyn suffer. It doesn't necesseraly mean he didn't want to shake hands with Kennedy because he thought he had killed Marilyn, but maybe it simply means that he despised Kennedy anyways.
What do you think?


That's what I think. I think he despised Kennedy in any case. As to whether RFK was there or not, I guess he could have been there but I can't say he has been for sure obviously.
mels
Here's the compiled file I promised. You can download it by reading this thread.

Comments regarding the file should be posted here in the discussion rooms, not as replies to the thread containing the document smile1.gif
the_Mmmm_girl
According to "Say goodbye to the president" RFK was in LA and had a helicopter brought him there.. they had one or two independent sources confirm that.... and also I know Eunice denied that RFK was ever in touch with Marilyn that day but if you watch her BBC interview she first denies it.. and then admits that Bobby Kennedy was indeed there that day. Also the ambulance driver swore that MM was still alive when they came to pick up MM's body.... unconcious but alive... I have to re-watch the whole thing again but I've always speculated that MM was murdered.... also there's that inconsitency with the Lawfords who were paged from the HollywoodBowl concert at 11pm and told that Marilyn was dead.... BUT official accounts always say that Murray and her doctor (supposedly the first persons to find Marilyn dead) didn't even find Marilyn dead in her bed until much, much later (at around 4-ish).. now how could the Lawfords get news of her death 5 hours before anyone supposedly found her?? There's definitely a conspiracy here.
Celia
It wasn´t the Lawfords at the Hollywood Bowl but Arthur Jacobs ( Marilyn´s press agent).
Anyway , I think there are too many people speaking and telling lies and we could be really far away from what really happened that night.
It seems Eunice Murray finnally admitted that Kennedy was there, but who knows, that lady lied too much from the beginning, so why not lie once more ?
Then Greenson was supposed to be at Marilyn´s really early that night, but then again, if you read the statement by his daughter ( that Mels posted), it seems he got news of her death around 3.30 am, in that case he wouldn´t have been liing.
I used to think that she had been murdered but now I find it hard to believe.
I don´t think it was an accident either since she had too many drugs in her blood.
Marilyn was in trouble , she had always been. I find it possible that she really committed suicide , after all so many people around her always thought that she would end up like she did ! However I do think there were people liing and trying to cover something up. I think they were probably trying to get rid of things that could relate Robert Kennedy to Marilyn., that would be the reason for the lateness in reporting her death to the police . I do think Marilyn and B. Kennedy had an affair.
ellen
marilyns neighbours saw bobby coming in and out of marilyns house that day ill check which book its in and get back sadballerina.gif
ellen
ok from the assasination of marilyn monroe by donald wolfe shortly before midnight a dark mercedes sped east on olympic boulevard in beverly hills.estamatingg the car to be driving in excess of fifty five miles per hour,beverly hills police officer lynn franklin flipped on his siren and lights and gave chase.when the mercedes pulled to a stop,franklin cautiously walked to the drivers side and directed his flashlight toward the three occupants. he immediately recognized the the driver was actor peter lawford.aiming his flashlight at the two men seated in the rear,he was surprised to see the attorney general of the united states,robert kennedy,seated next to a third man he later identified as ralph greenson. lawford explained that he was driving the attorney general to the beverly hilton hotel on an urgent matter. were they on their way to marilyns?anyhow thats another witness apart from the neighbors sadballerina.gif
sabine
ARGHHHH.... scared.gif i just can't help myself but i have to jump in here.
Donald H. Wolfe's book is a horrible book filled with the authors overactive imagination.
Listen, i've heard the man say that he believes Marilyn was killed by Dr. Greenson with an injection into her heart....we all KNOW this is impossible.
So what else does this guy get wrong? Just about EVERYTHING. angry.gif
Wolfe's sources are dubious, to say the least. I feel what he has done to Marilyn's memory and trashing of people is horrible. I dare you to find one thing in his book that can actually be backed up by facts.
Wolfe brings forth 'new' evidence from'eyewitness' Norman Jeffries, mrs.murray's son-in-law, who's story over the years has grown by leaps and bounds.
Trouble is, did Jeffries really say this stuff or did Wolfe help himself to some creative licence??? Wolfe can not be trusted. he will look you in the face and mantain Marilyn was killed by a "hotshot".
Furthermore, the video "say good-bye to the president" is also horrible. Mrs. Murray's interview suposedly admitting Bobby kennedy was at marilyn's house the day of her death is a spliced together mess...you can hear the quality between the interviewer's voice and mrs. murray's replys change for pete's sake. If they're gonna pull the wool over people's eyes i wish they would do it without insulting my intelligence. blink.gif
Unfortuently this stuff sells because there are still people out there willing to buy this stuff without so much as proof. Do not be taken in by these people. they are slandering Marilyn's memory and pulling money out of your pockets.


sabine


PS: Ever notice that Wolfe's claims always involve some half-baked mystery source or hear-say witness? Lots of times he doesn't even bother explaining his sources. The Man is a disgrace and i concider him an enemy of Marilyn's that tries to pass himself off as a 'caring' person trying to 'expose' the truth. Yeah right. Wolfe and Slatzer belong in the same bag. Tie it up and throw it out.
Joan Newman
[quote name='Fav' date='Jul 9 2004, 07:07 PM' post='57009']
'Three years after Marilyn's death, in 1965, Joe Dimaggio stood in a ceremonial lineup for baseball hero Mickey Mantle at New York's Yankee stadium. Robert Kennedy came along the line, smiling and shaking hands. Rather than shake Kennedy's hand, Dimaggio quickly backed away.' Quote source - Goddess The Secret Lives Of Marilyn Monroe.

I was looking for a photo of Joe D. on this day anywhere near Robert Kennedy, but no luck. But from these pictures you can see where Joe was next to Mantle's mom and then when RFK started to shake hands, Joe was not there. clapping.gif

Joe DiMaggio: The Long Vigil
by Jerome Charyn

" Talese tells us about the time when the Jolter returned to Yankee Stadium on September 18, 1965" on Mickey Mantle Day.

" And there was Joe DiMaggio in his somber suit, like a dark prince of a former time, leading Mickey Mantle's mother to the microphone, and all the other dignitaries standing in the infield.

And suddenly Senator Robert Kennedy appeared in the Yankee dugout an shook the hand of every Yankee he could find, while DiMaggio introduced Mickey mantle as his successor in center field. "

" The RFK came roaring out of the dugout, posed with the Mick, and shook hands with one dignitary after the other until DiMaggio stepped back and gave him a "Sicilian stare"- his evil eye- and RFK could do nothing but move down the line and reach out for someone else's hand. "
CYRILPARIS
From article The Silent Season of a Hero by Gay Talese in Esquire, July 1966

https://www.randomhouse.com/kvpa/talese/essays/dimaggio.html

... He no longer speaks to his onetime friend, Frank Sinatra, who had befriended Marilyn in her final years, and he also is cool to Dean Martin and Peter Lawford and Lawford's former wife, Pat, who once gave a party at which she introduced Marilyn Monroe to Robert Kennedy, and the two of them danced often that night, Joe heard, and he did not take it well. He was possessive of her that year, his close friends say, because Marilyn and he had planned to remarry; but before they could she was dead, and DiMaggio banned the Lawfords and Sinatra and many Hollywood people from her funeral. When Marilyn Monroe's attorney complained that DiMaggio was keeping her friends away, DiMaggio answered coldly, "If it weren't for those friends persuading her to stay in Hollywood, she would still be alive."
...

...It happened all so quickly, the passing of Mantle, or so it seemed; he had succeeded DiMaggio, who had succeeded Ruth, but now there was no great young power hitter coming up, and the Yankee management, almost desperate, had talked Mantle out of retirement, and on September 18, 1965, they gave him a "day" in New York during which he received several thousand dollars' worth of gifts - an automobile, two quarter horses, free vacation trips to Rome, Nassau, Puerto Rico - and DiMaggio had flown to New York to make the introduction before 50,000: it had been a dramatic day, an almost holy day for the believers who had jammed the grandstands early to witness the canonization of a new stadium saint. Cardinal Spellman was on the committee, President Johnson sent a telegram, the day was officially proclaimed by the Mayor of New York, an orchestra assembled in the center field in front of the trinity of monuments to Ruth, Gehrig, Huggins; and high in the grandstands, billowing in the breeze of early autumn, were white banners that read: "Don't Quit, Mick," "We Love the Mick."
The banner had been held by hundreds of young boys whose dreams had been fulfilled so often by Mantle, but also seated in the grandstands were older men, paunchy and balding, in whose middle-aged minds DiMaggio was still vivid and invincible, and some of them remembered how one month before, during a pregame exhibition at Old-Timers' Day in Yankee Stadium, DiMaggio had hit a pitch into the left-field seats, and suddenly thousands of people had jumped wildly to their feet, joyously screaming - the great DiMaggio had returned, they were young again, it was yesterday.
But on this sunny September day at the stadium, the feast day of Mickey Mantle, DiMaggio was not wearing No. 5 on his back or a black cap to cover his graying hair; he was wearing a black suit and white shirt and blue tie, and he stood in one corner of the Yankees' dugout waiting to be introduced by Red Barber, who was standing near home plate behind a silver microphone. In the outfield Guy Lombardo's Royal Canadians were playing soothing, soft music; and moving slowly back and forth over the sprawling green grass between the left-field bullpen and the infield were two carts driven by grounds keepers and containing dozens and dozens of large gifts for Mantle - a 6-foot, 100-pound Hebrew National salami, a Winchester rifle, a mink coat for Mrs. Mantle, a set of Wilson golf clubs, a year's supply of Chunky Candy. DiMaggio smoked a cigarette, but cupped it in his hands as if not wanting to be caught in the act by teen-aged boys near enough to peek down into the dugout. Then, edging forward a step, DiMaggio poked his head out and looked up. He could see nothing above except the packed, towering green grandstands that seemed a mile high and moving, and he could see no clouds or blue sky, only a sky of faces. Then the announcer called out his name - "Joe DiMaggio!" - and suddenly there was a blast of cheering that grew louder and louder, echoing and reechoing within the big steel canyon, and DiMaggio stomped out his cigarette and climbed up the dugout steps and onto the soft green grass, the noise resounding in his ears, he could almost feel the breeze, the breath of 50,000 lungs upon him, 100,000 eyes watching his every move, and for the briefest instant as he walked he closed his eyes.
Then in his path he saw Mickey Mantle's mother, a smiling woman wearing an orchid, and he gently reached out for her elbow, holding it as he led her toward the microphone next to the other dignitaries lined up on the infield. Then he stood, very erect and without expression as the cheers softened and the stadium settled down.
Mantle was still in the dugout, in uniform, standing with one leg on the top step, and lined on both sides of him were the other Yankees who, when the ceremony was over, would play the Detroit Tigers. Then into the dugout, smiling, came Senator Robert Kennedy, accompanied by two tall curly-haired assistants with blue eyes, Fordham freckles. Jim Farley was the first on the field to notice the Senator, and Farley muttered, loud enough for others to hear, "Who the hell invited him?"
Toots Shor and some of the other committeemen standing near Farley looked into the dugout, and so did DiMaggio, his glance seeming cold, but he remained silent. Kennedy walked up and down within the dugout, shaking hands with the Yankees, but he did not walk onto the field.
"Senator," said Yankees' manager Johnny Keane, "why don't you sit down?" Kennedy quickly shook his head, smiled. He remained standing, and then one Yankee came over and asked about getting relatives out of Cuba, and Kennedy called over one of his aides to take down the details in a notebook.
On the infield the ceremony went on, Mantle's gifts continued to pile up - a Mobilette motorbike, a Sooner Schooner wagon barbecue, a year's supply of Chock Full O' Nuts coffee, a year's supply of Topps Chewing Gum - and the Yankee players watched, and Maris seemed glum.
"Hey, Rog," yelled a man with a tape recorder, Murray Olderman, "I want to do a 30-second tape with you." Maris swore angrily, shook his head.
"Why don't you ask Richardson? He's a better talker than me."
"Yes, but the fact that it comes from you ..."
Maris swore again. But finally he went over and said in an interview that Mantle was the finest player of his era, a great competitor, a great hitter.
Fifteen minutes later, standing behind the microphone at home plate, DiMaggio was telling the crowd, "I'm proud to introduce the man who succeeded me in center field in 1951," and from every corner of the stadium, the cheering, whistling, clapping came down. Mantle stepped forward. He stood with his wife and children, posed for the photographers kneeling in front. Then he thanked the crowd in a short speech, and, turning, shook hands with the dignitaries standing nearby. Among them now was Senator Kennedy, who had been spotted in the dugout five minutes before by Red Barber, and been called out and introduced. Kennedy posed with Mantle for a photographer, then shook hands with the Mantle children, and with Toots Shor and James Farley and others. DiMaggio saw him coming down the line and at the last second he backed away, casually, hardly anybody noticing it, and Kennedy seemed not to notice it either, just swept past, shaking more hands.
...
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