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Full Version: I Have Changed My Mind On How I View Marilyn's Death.
Everlasting Star Community > The experts' lounge > Marilyn's mysterious death > General discussion
Lauren Michele
Lately, it has been right there in my face and it just came up to the surface. I know we have our own opinions but for sooo long I felt she was murdered. Now I am going through a different "grieving" process because she had the phone in her hand. In her hand but it just wasn'nt in time, this time, for Marilyn. She had taken too many pills in the past but she called in time for help. This time, in my opinion it was too late. I don't expect any one to reply. Maybe someone who believes the same way I do but. Coming here, and reading on the boards and peoples opinions has what done it. throb.gif Lauren M.
Charli
Hey Lauren! I thought I should return the favour...remember when I posted something no one would respond to?LOL!

Anyways!
AsmuchasIwouldlike tobelieveshe was murdered(as it would give me someone to blame for her tragic death)...all the evidence points to the fact she overdosed. It just had to be accidental suicide.
Tara
I think she became upset that day, maybe if she had spoken to Robert Kennedy, or something else entirely. Even a minor upset could have changed her mood. And after that she took a lot of pills, or maybe an enema, not thinking about what was already in her system. By the time of her last phonecall (probably to Ralph Roberts, who wasn't there), maybe she knew something was wrong and was trying to get help.

Sadly it was too late. I think drug addiction was Marilyn's worst enemy, even more than depression. The Kennedys weren't good for her but I don't believe they killed her at all. At times I have also wondered if she was murdered, but when I consider the facts in depth, I don't see any hard evidence. Although I do think there was a cover-up of sorts after the event, ie the deleting of the phone records. Because the Kennedys would not have wanted the public to know of their association with a dead actress.

So I think yes, it was accidental suicide. Whether she meant to kill herself or not, I don't know. Perhaps she was just distressed and wanted to numb out the pain. But there had been so many overdoses, one just a week before. I don't believe that Marilyn was a weak person - far from it. But depression and addiction are very, very hard to beat.
Darling
I think she could haev killed herself since she was so depressed but also Sam Giancana or the K bros could have done it. It's a toss up...we'll NEVER really know, it's all just beliefs/guesses, etc.
Paju
I know how you feel Lauren Michele!
I have also wondered over the years whether Marilyn's death was a suicide (accidental or not), or murder, or caused accidentally by someone else. I am still not sure what it was after all, but I've kinda forgotten about the murder theory. I don't think she was murdered. At first, I believed it was a suicide, but now I'm leaning towards an accident of some sort. She might have wanted to die and she might have taken enough drugs to do that, but after realizing she really was going to die she wanted to live, be saved... Or maybe someone else gave her an enema without knowing how many pills she had already taken.
I think it's a lot simpler than what it's been made to look like. All these theories about murder, the involvement of the Kennedys, mafia and what else help build the legend and myth, but in the end I think the truth is way simpler than that.
Lauren Michele
Thank you ladies for your kind replies. I had to voice my opinion on the board also because it was here on the board under one of the topics I once replied I felt she was murdered. And I felt that way for a very long time. Now I see things with Marilyn's death so differently. If I do remember correctly, she had called people or a person to say goodbye? Maybe I am thinking of something else. But I do think she wanted to be rescued, the medication for Bipolar Disorder and Major Depression were so different back then. I don't know when Lithium was introduced to patients for Bipolar. I myself am Bipolar so I understand the rollercoaster life one can live without proper medication or dosage. I feel for her. Lauren Michele.
Celia
QUOTE(Lauren Michele @ May 27 2006, 11:35 PM) [snapback]105625[/snapback]
Thank you ladies for your kind replies. I had to voice my opinion on the board also because it was here on the board under one of the topics I once replied I felt she was murdered. And I felt that way for a very long time. Now I see things with Marilyn's death so differently. If I do remember correctly, she had called people or a person to say goodbye? Maybe I am thinking of something else. But I do think she wanted to be rescued, the medication for Bipolar Disorder and Major Depression were so different back then. I don't know when Lithium was introduced to patients for Bipolar. I myself am Bipolar so I understand the rollercoaster life one can live without proper medication or dosage. I feel for her. Lauren Michele.



I also used to think she was murdered, then I started to hesitate, and in the end a fan of this group
Sabine, gave me enough reasons to convince me that it was a simple suicide.And thatīs what I believe
now. Whether she regreted it at the last minute or not, I donīt know.I think thatīs a possibility yes.
However the amount of drugs was so huge that I wonder whether she could have been saved.
What I find strange is that she appeared to be so ilusioned with the decoration of her new house according
to some people. But I guess a house is just a material thing and a material thing is not enough to save
somebody.
Lauren Michele
I've read that Bipolar medication was introduced to patients in the 1950's. I am assuming that would have been Lithium. Today Lithium is still used but a psychiatrist will also distribute anti-psychotic drugs along side also too help keep the mania down. Back in "62" It is not known to us if Marilyn was being treated for her illness of Manic Depression, perhaps somewhere it is written for the public, but a mood stabilizer along side with the Lithium would have given her a fighting chance at not even contemplating suicide. All I read is is that she was on sleeping pills. That is telling me perhaps she was in a manic phase probably and she must have had great trouble sleeping due to the illness, where the high can keep one up for days. Also, many people due contemplate suicide during this phase of the disease. Her life could have been so out of her control. Maybe not to others. To others, she may have seemed "high on life". Been to her if she were that ill she must have wanted help so badly. Instead of just checking herself in the hospital, which is a rational idea you and I would do maybe, to her , help was emptying pills down her throat. It was a temporary escape which unfortunatly as we all know was not the solution. Marilyn may not have been taking her medications for Bipolar because of thier side effects too. Weight gain is a one of them. Lauren Michele
marilynmonroe517
QUOTE(Lauren Michele @ May 26 2006, 11:55 PM) [snapback]105564[/snapback]
Lately, it has been right there in my face and it just came up to the surface. I know we have our own opinions but for sooo long I felt she was murdered. Now I am going through a different "grieving" process because she had the phone in her hand. In her hand but it just wasn'nt in time, this time, for Marilyn. She had taken too many pills in the past but she called in time for help. This time, in my opinion it was too late. I don't expect any one to reply. Maybe someone who believes the same way I do but. Coming here, and reading on the boards and peoples opinions has what done it. throb.gif Lauren M.



Through out the years there has been so much Controversy surrounding Marilyn's death. In my opinion I truly believe she was murdered. The sad part is, that in this story we get to realize that she wasn’t surrounded by any real friends. I believe that every single person around Marilyn during her last days had to do with her death.

We will play detective, take your own notes and come up with your own conclusions, read the following statements and reports.This information had been gather from books like "Goddess" By: Anthony Summers, and "The Last Days Of Marilyn Monroe" By: Donald H. Wolfe.

“This initial examination form was part of a file that disappeared as the case began."

“That bruise ,” Dr. Noguchi said . ” has never been fully explained.” When reporters asked what may have caused the bruises, Noguchi replied, “ there are no explanation for that bruise. It is a sign of Violence,”

The forensic medicine establishes that there is no case on record of a fatal dose by oral ingestion involving such HIGH concentration in the blood of both “Pentobarbital” and “Chloral hydrate” the victim inevitably dies before the fatal concentration can approach such a high blood level. Monroe would have been dead before even reaching 35% of the total barbiturates had been absorbed from the digestive track into her bloodstream. It is not possible that the remanning 65% To be absorbed by the digestive track, vanished without a trace, because when the heart stops beating, the blood stops circulating, and the bodily functions shut down. This amount of drugs can “not 'have entered the bloodstream by ingestion, suppository, enema infusion, or any other way.

So how did she died? It could only have been by needle injection.


http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mmgoddess/THEFACTS1.html

Her death is the most obvious murder ever committed
Lauren Michele
Hello Ash. It is such a mystery this ending . Thank you for the book titles. I'd love to read them. I didn't get the impression from you to go back and forth about our opinions of who is right, who is wrong. There are holes in all theories to me. That's why I don't think we'll ever truely know the method of her demise. Thank you for writing to me. Lauren Michele.
marilynmonroe517
QUOTE(Lauren Michele @ May 29 2006, 04:38 AM) [snapback]105744[/snapback]
Hello Ash. It is such a mystery this ending . Thank you for the book titles. I'd love to read them. I didn't get the impression from you to go back and forth about our opinions of who is right, who is wrong. There are holes in all theories to me. That's why I don't think we'll ever truely know the method of her demise. Thank you for writing to me. Lauren Michele.



throb.gif no problem i love disscussions! throb.gif
Dirrty_Blonde
i have long felt she was murdered. i have considered the possibility of accidental overdose/suicide but i just dont see it. I still believe she was murdered. Its always nice to hear others views though:)
Lauren Michele
Hi Jenn. You're a sweetie pie. Most of the times when people hear the opposite view coming from someone they feel the need to lash out as if the other were wrong to feel that way. I don't know exactly what changed my mind yet about accidental suicide. I can't quite put my finger on a definative answer and say this is why etc. When it comes to mind, I'll let you know! Lauren Michele smile1.gif
wombat
i got slammed for saying in the 48 Hours threat i thought marilyn's death was an accident. i'd like to take this time to state my reasons why.

for the president and/or his family and/or anyone at the highest levels of power to have such a high-profile individual like marilyn be murdered - and make sure those responsible got away with it - would not only have taken a massive coodinated effort, but have required that those who could bring the culprits to justice would have to have been threatened and/or bribed to look the other way -- in marilyn's case, everyone from the governor on down AND the mainstream media! i can't even begin to take seriously the notion that gov. brown, mayor yorty and chief parker would be so cowered!

as far as the mafia killing marilyn at the request of the kennedys, this makes zero sense. the mob had helped old joe buy the WH for his not-so-bright-boy, only to have his other boy go after them like a pit bull (that's graditude for ya)! they got burned once -- they wouldn't be stupid enough to put themselves out a second time!

if joe thought marilyn was murdered, as his lawyer claims, why didn't he pipe up?! hell, he was joe dimaggio! no one would dare try to go after him or his family for saying that marilyn was murdered! and if someone did, it'd prove she was murdered -- which would bring the whole cover-up down like a house of cards!

there is also the fact that marilyn was discreet about her private life. she never publicly acknowledged a liason, expect the hubbies and in her book "my story"; even then, she was always a lady. and what if she did call a press conference and tell everybody she was sleeping with JFK and/or bobby or otherwise spill the beans?! the press already knew they weren't choir boys (probably the worst-kept secret in DC), and marilyn already had a "reputation" of being unstable. the PC would've been a sensation, to be sure, but it would only have solidified her "reputation" -- and it wouldn't have ousted the kennedys from power!

another thing people forget: the NYT #1 bestseller at the time of JFK's assassination was a book exposing him as a piece of crap! the kennedys did not have the author "taken care of" before he found a publisher, but had marilyn killed? makes no sense!

but the one thing that clearly argues against murder is the fact that JFK's other girlfriends - especially judith campbell exner, who had enough on him to bring the presidency itself down - outlived him! exner told people that once it was clear she and JFK were no longer an item, the FBI simply left her alone! JFK even had his own monica lewinsky who couldn't keep her big mouth shut during their fling! why did the kennedys allow judith campbell exner to go on with her life, but decide that marilyn was too big of a threat to them to live? again, it makes no sense!
Lauren Michele
Hi Lisa. If I remember it was how you came accross, how you said it. Not your opinion. I don't judge peoples opinions. I may disagree. balloon.gif Lauren Michele. Thank you for all the info.
Dirrty_Blonde
^^when you do figure out why you changed your mind, let me know. im interested in hearing about it:)
Lauren Michele
QUOTE(Dirrty_Blonde @ May 31 2006, 06:39 PM) [snapback]106027[/snapback]
^^when you do figure out why you changed your mind, let me know. im interested in hearing about it:)


Hi Jenn! The only way to explain my change of mind, was little by little I was socializing with people here on ES, and I was explaining different reasons to people her possible state of mind, I learned she was Bipolar, and little pieces of the puzzle started falling into place for me. I wasn't intentionaly discussing her illness the thought of possibly the theory of it being an accident at all. That was not my intention. Her clutching the phone, that I knew for many years but just a week before Marilyn died she had made a call for help either she swallowed some pills or she felt desperate. She had swallowed pills before in the past, but phoned just in time. This time, she did not call in time. I believe she tried. It is very amazing to go from feeling for over 20 years that the Kennedy's hired hit men or ordered Dr. Greenson to murder her, to feeling like this may have been an accidental suicide after all. I don't know if I gave you enough information that you would like to hear but I think this is all I have at the moment. You have a good question though and I am surprized no-one asked or they don't care laugh.gif . I'm at peace with this. Sad of course for her. throb.gif
Lauren Michele. marilynbybrandon_190.gif
wombat
QUOTE(Lauren Michele @ May 31 2006, 10:43 AM) [snapback]105998[/snapback]
Hi Lisa. If I remember it was how you came accross, how you said it. Not your opinion. I don't judge peoples opinions. I may disagree. balloon.gif Lauren Michele. Thank you for all the info.


i don't think i came across as mean or disrespectful, but if i did, sorry! blush.gif

here's another thing: the kennedys had lots of enemies. enemy #1 was j. edgar hoover, who had the goods on old joe and his boy and then some -- to the point where JFK and bobby allowed hoover to blackmail them into doing his bidding (wiretap MLK, Jr., etc.) if they could have hoover "retired", don't you think they would have? hell ya!

bottom line, IMHO, marilyn was in no position to be a threat to the kennedys or to anyone else. they'd have nothing to gain - and everything to lose - by having her killed!
Lauren Michele
QUOTE(wombat @ May 31 2006, 10:01 PM) [snapback]106049[/snapback]
i don't think i came across as mean or disrespectful, but if i did, sorry! blush.gif

here's another thing: the kennedys had lots of enemies. enemy #1 was j. edgar hoover, who had the goods on old joe and his boy and then some -- to the point where JFK and bobby allowed hoover to blackmail them into doing his bidding (wiretap MLK, Jr., etc.) if they could have hoover "retired", don't you think they would have? hell ya!

bottom line, IMHO, marilyn was in no position to be a threat to the kennedys or to anyone else. they'd have nothing to gain - and everything to lose - by having her killed!


Hey Lisa! No hard feelings! thumbup1.gif You sure do know your stuff. Thank you. I don't know much about the whole Kennedy clan and who was a threat. I just can't believe our Marilyn was THAT much of a threat to be murdered. I can't see it anymore. Thanks again Lisa! Lauren Michele.
Dirrty_Blonde
i read your view on it and it is a possible explanation. If she did in fact overdose, im curious as to what pushed her that far over the edge, when her previous calls were said to sound upbeat and cheerful. Its something we'll never know but it really liked reading your views on it:)
Lauren Michele
QUOTE(Dirrty_Blonde @ Jun 1 2006, 06:21 AM) [snapback]106079[/snapback]
i read your view on it and it is a possible explanation. If she did in fact overdose, im curious as to what pushed her that far over the edge, when her previous calls were said to sound upbeat and cheerful. Its something we'll never know but it really liked reading your views on it:)


HI Jenn!!
I can't say for sure that this is what was going through Marilyn's mind, but if you do research, and not too deeply either on suicide...one's mood shifts from depressed to elated prior to the act. I know this very well. I know it sounds wrong but this is what happens "most" of the time. She was Bipolar also on top of this and ones mood can change at the drop of a hat. I had also wrote before that she could have been in the "mania" phase of the bipolar disorder where to others you sound "high on life", never been happier, but the patients mind is at a breaking point and suicide occurs VERY often during the mania phase as oppose to the depressed phase of Manic depression. ...........Lauren Michele bye1.gif
bud
I seriously doubt she intended to kill herself, if anything it was a cry for help resulting in accidental death. However, there does seem to be a few anomalies as to what really happened that night, i wouldn't rule out for definite the possibility of murder.
Lauren Michele
QUOTE(bud @ Jun 1 2006, 07:02 PM) [snapback]106161[/snapback]
I seriously doubt she intended to kill herself, if anything it was a cry for help resulting in accidental death. However, there does seem to be a few anomalies as to what really happened that night, i wouldn't rule out for definite the possibility of murder.


Hi Bud, I think she may have felt desperate, desperate for help too. Just a week prior to her death she reached out in time and either called Dr. Greenson or a friend, but, this time my opinion is she took the pills to feel better and did not make the phone call in time. Her phone, as you may know, was found clutched in her hand. Although she was very ill, I believe this was an accidental suicide. I feel she wanted to be saved.. .........Lauren Michele
marilynmonroe517
QUOTE(bud @ Jun 1 2006, 07:02 PM) [snapback]106161[/snapback]
I seriously doubt she intended to kill herself, if anything it was a cry for help resulting in accidental death. However, there does seem to be a few anomalies as to what really happened that night, i wouldn't rule out for definite the possibility of murder.



i'm with bud..though i am a deffinite on it being a murder..it's just so obvious to me
JanCollector
I think she was murdered. All forensic evidence points to the administration of a fatal enema containing a chloral hydrate/Nembutal cocktail. Monroe never would have done this if she had intended to kill herself. She would have overdosed via the oral route.

One thing is certain: She did NOT die by oral ingestion of pills.
Lauren Michele
bye1.gif Welcome Josh. In your opinion, who gave her the enema? Thank you. balloon.gif Lauren Michele.

P.S. If it was her doctor, who ordered it? Thanks.

Hi, I just want to say I respect everyone's opinion on how they view Marilyn's death. I want to thank everyone who replied to my post. We all feel feel either one one way or another. Suicide, whether accident or intentional or murdered. I don't want to go back and forth with my fellow members like a tennis match of who is right and who is wrong. It can get ugly. I asked Josh a question, but he already spoke of his opinion and that is fine with me. thumbup1.gif welcome again Josh, and thanks again everyone. Love, Lauren Michele xoxoxo throb.gif
emelie
I think I want to believe that she was murdered, just can't believe that she took an overdose. What about Eunice Murray, was she the only one there when Marilyn got killed? no.gif
JanCollector
Hi Lauren,

Thanks for the welcome. Who gave her the enema and how they subdued her is debatable, and I don't think we'll ever know the full truth. Many of the perpetrators proposed over the decades might have done it.

QUOTE(Lauren Michele @ Jun 8 2006, 06:12 AM) [snapback]106824[/snapback]
bye1.gif Welcome Josh. In your opinion, who gave her the enema? Thank you. balloon.gif Lauren Michele.

P.S. If it was her doctor, who ordered it? Thanks.

Hi, I just want to say I respect everyone's opinion on how they view Marilyn's death. I want to thank everyone who replied to my post. We all feel feel either one one way or another. Suicide, whether accident or intentional or murdered. I don't want to go back and forth with my fellow members like a tennis match of who is right and who is wrong. It can get ugly. I asked Josh a question, but he already spoke of his opinion and that is fine with me. thumbup1.gif welcome again Josh, and thanks again everyone. Love, Lauren Michele xoxoxo throb.gif
Lauren Michele
QUOTE(emelie @ Jun 8 2006, 10:26 AM) [snapback]106835[/snapback]
I think I want to believe that she was murdered, just can't believe that she took an overdose. What about Eunice Murray, was she the only one there when Marilyn got killed? no.gif


Hi emelie! I know sweetie. I understand how you feel about Marilyn accidently or purposely taking her own life. I hate to think of men, sneaking in and taking her own life. Eunice Murray couldn't keep her story straight, ever. It's sad any way you look at it. throb.gif .....Lauren Michele
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