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> How do you think Marilyn died?, Let's open the debate
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In your opinion, how did Marilyn die?
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sabine
post Mar 1 2005, 12:49 AM
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Well, personnally i think that marilyn showed many signs of her impending suicide before her actual death, including her 1961 hospitalization into Payne Whitney.
I fel that marilyn's friends and associated were keeping a 'suicide watch' over marilyn during this time and there are many signs that point toward this fact.
As far as murder, there really isn't much of a Motive here.
Who wanted Marilyn Monroe dead badly enough? There just isn't an answer to this that makes sense.
The Kennedys? I think they had better things to do. Shutting Marilyn out seemed to be their way of dealing with her. The rest of the world already knew of her 'problems'...it would have been easy to dismiss her as a scorned, aging, troubeled moviestar....i also fail to see how murdering her would have been 'safer' and easier to 'cover whatever they wanted to cover' than simply dropping her.
Unless we want to believe that marilyn knew about 'Cuba" and "castro" and the rest of that nonsense. Are people grasping at straws to milk a sensational story out of marilyn's death?
Accidental overdose is totally impossible because the dose was too large....had she taken them all spaced out over time she would have passed out long before she could finish them all.
A high dose of drugs was found in Marilyn's bloodstream...this mean there was one large dose!
The enema theory is downright rediculous but also implausible. After speaking with a Nurse not familar with the details of the case she informed me that the colon is not designed to "absorb", but rater exspell matter. If the colon could absorb these pills it would also absorb the toxic waste our bodies clear away every day......the colon's job is to 'remove' matter from the body, not work in reverse and dump matter into the bloodstream....
Did a lightbulp just go on for you? It sure did for me!!
I think with the nurse explaining this to me i for the first time got a clear picture on how this works.
But what about the empty stomach, you ask.......
Well, she gave me another take on that one that was simple to understand....
She told me that there is no 'digestion' with medication because the pills lack proteins and fats the stomach would have to break down.
The pills would simply 'dissolve' very quickly and be passed along to the intestines, unless slowed down by something solid, such as food.
And we all know Marilyn ate nothing that day.....
I was suprised on how little time this disolving and absorption would actually take.....(under an hour).
We also have to factor in Marilyn's heavy usage of these pills and her body's familiarity with them.
So anyways....i have studied marilyn's life in detail for quite a while...i also rely greatly on my large collection of vintage magazines that were made while Marilyn was actually struggling but alive.....and there is no doubt that she was her own worst enemy.
I am afraid that we're barking up the wrong tree when we talk about all these 'conspiracys' and things, there seems to be no real evidence for.

sabine
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Mairi
post Mar 16 2005, 12:27 AM
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Personally I think JOE Kennedy hired someone to kill her. While I respect the Kennedys as politicians, I think he was a pretty ruthless person and would do anything he could to get rid of someone that was complicating his sons' lives. I mean, he did some pretty shady stuff besides.

However, this is just my opinion. Until I meet Marilyn up there and ask her what happened, it'll all be just speculation.
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Dark_Temptation
post Mar 16 2005, 01:56 PM
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I'm doubting between she's murdered and accidental. The both could be true, but I just can't/won't believe that she committed suicide.
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marie-marilyn
post Mar 17 2005, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE(Dark_Temptation @ Mar 16 2005, 12:56 PM)
I'm doubting between she's murdered and accidental. The both could be true, but I just can't/won't believe that she committed suicide.
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I agree with you there. I don't think she commited suicide either.

Personally, I think it was either the Kennedys or perhaps an accidental overdose...but I am inclined to say she was murdered. Why they would want her dead though...perhaps she knew too much about something?
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Clift
post Mar 22 2005, 02:00 PM
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In some books I read that the murder is by the Kennedys, and in others books (Daniel Spoto Biography) by an accidental medication. I dont what theory believe! I think that the most true theory is the Donald Spoto, but always have the dude!!

I think the blame of the Marilyn Monroe dead is in Dr. Greenson and the conspirer witch Eunice Murray...

And a little question .... Anybody remember how Marilyn meet the Doctor Greenson??

Sorry for my disastrous english
(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

PLEASE, C'MON REPLY MY POST! (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

This post has been edited by Clift: Mar 24 2005, 11:54 AM
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marie-marilyn
post Mar 24 2005, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE(Clift @ Mar 22 2005, 01:00 PM)
And a little question .... Anybody remember how Marilyn meet the Doctor Greenson??
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Early in 1960, Marilyn was consulting with Dr. Ralph Greenson, a prominent psychoanalyst to Hollywood stars. As common during this period, he relied heavily on drug therapy...routinely prescribing barbiturates and tranquilizers in addition to his psychotherapy...

That's a reference I keep coming up with if I search for Dr. Greenson and Marilyn. So defintely by 1960, I can't find anything to suggest they knew each other before that.
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Tara
post Mar 24 2005, 05:23 PM
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Dr Greenson was recommended to Marilyn by her LA attorney, Milton Rudin. The first known time that Dr Greenson treated MM was in August 1960, when Marilyn was admitted to the Westside Hospital in LA after suffering a breakdown on the set of The Misfits.

According to The Unabridged Marilyn.
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sabine
post May 16 2005, 08:59 PM
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Let's get right to it: The most compelling case for suicide is the fact that Marilyn herself bought the drugs that later killed her. This fact can not be ignored. She also had a history of suicide attempts and a family history of mental disturbances. She had been dpressed and under a psychiatrists care for years. She had been hooked on various drugs for years.
I know this is hard to take and understand. I struggle myself. But i can not ignore the obvious.
All the other stuff like killer enemas and hotshots and murderplots dismiss Marilyn's true problems. This is the problem i have with the conspiracy theories...they have very little proof (if any) to prove their case and they totally ignore what was going on in Marilyn's Life.

my 2 cents worth


sabine
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ariella
post Jun 3 2005, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE(MM_Yvonne @ Jul 7 2004, 02:49 PM)
i don`t mean it like that Val...but i don`t know how TO put it so that you`ll understand....I`m sorry
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I understand wht you mean, don't woory! I think it's sometimes very hard to put into words wht we mean. What you mean is a large part of marilyn popularity is based on the fact that she died young and that her death was tragic ( no matter how she died it wasn't a "natural" death). If she were alive the truth is she would not be as popular. Fans are focused on her beauty and youth afterall. As a 79 year old woman I believe few people would care about her. It's like james Dean, had he lived his fan base would more than likely be quite small.

So, it would be wonderful had she lived to be older( which I know is what you meant) but her fame would be not as massive as it is now. people worship sex beauty and youth , glamour and tragedy, they don't find a happy, well adjusted older person all that interesting.
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sabine
post Jun 13 2005, 01:48 AM
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Ariella....good point! (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)
look at Marlon Brando...he was huge in the 50's and later he bacame huge, in another, less flattering way. And even though people respected his talent, nobody was gushing over him like they do over James Dean to this day.....don't see a Malon Brando calendar every year, do ya??? Hehehehe... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
It's not fair but it's a fact....
Marilyn as a 79 year old woman, worshipped by the masses? Very unlikely.....she assured her own immortality because of her premature death, as did Dean.
What a price to pay for everlasting fame.... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif)

sabine
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meganmarilyn
post Jun 13 2005, 03:00 AM
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Brando wasn't the icon that Marilyn or Dean were in the 1950's either. Brando didn't inspire teenagers to rebel or change their style of dress like Dean did. Big difference.

And even when Elvis died, fat and 42, he still had people crying and lines longer than you can imagine wanting to pay their last respects. He still had people fanting at the sight of him in concert. You can't say that about Brando. I don't think I have ever read anyone fanting at the sight of seeing Brando in person or people ringing his doorbell screaming his name just to get a glimpse, like people did for Elvis or Marilyn.

I for one would love Marilyn even more today if she did live and she was still alive. Because I would have that much more respect for her life, living as long as she did.

QUOTE(sabine @ Jun 13 2005, 12:48 AM)
A
riella....good point!  (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)
look at Marlon Brando...he was huge in the 50's and later he bacame huge, in another, less flattering way. And even though people respected his talent, nobody was gushing over him like they do over James Dean to this day.....don't see a Malon Brando calendar every year, do ya???  Hehehehe... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
It's not fair but it's a fact....
Marilyn as a 79 year old woman, worshipped by the masses? Very unlikely.....she assured her own immortality because of her premature death, as did Dean.
What a price to pay for everlasting fame.... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif)

sabine
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minx_dublin
post Jun 13 2005, 11:19 AM
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Just wanted to state for the record that I agree with Sabine's theory.

I remember when I was fifteen and started reading bios on Marilyn that the one thing that kept jumping out of the pages were the repeated suicide attempts. She was prone to them, I think Miller made a comment after her death along the lines that it was sadly inevitable. Thats pretty much the way I feel.

People will always look for conspiracies. Look at the Princess Diana death. That was an accident, full stop, but people are constantly trying to prove she was murdered. I think our human nature can't bear the loss of a youthful and beautiful woman.

I agree that there appears to have been a cover up. And I'm still trying to figure out in my own head why that was. They obviously should not have touched the scene and called the police immediatley. That didn't happen and its strange. Perhaps the Kenndys were being warned so as to brace them for media interest. Perhaps it was a PR excercise where they felt they wanted to present Marilyn in the best possible way. OR...perhaps her overdose was administered by someone else. I don't rule that out. But lets be clear....Marilyn did not have secrets that could take down the United States government. I will never believe otherwise and while she may have been getting slightly over eager in her affair with Robert Kennedy, I dont believe he ever considered she would go public. Also note that Dimaggio, who loved her very much, never appears to have questioned her cause of death. Thats because he had seen her at her lowest moments, he saw the demons that haunted her and he knew what she was capable of.
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MrSpatz
post Aug 19 2005, 12:14 PM
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I find it almost impossible to have an opinion on this. There are so many conflicting stories and inconsistencies.
Unlike a lot of the folks on this board, I'm no expert on the subject, but what strikes me is that by all accounts Marilyn didn't seem to be all that unhappy with life in general at the time. A few years ago the BBC aired a show based on tapes of her last interview and she struck me as being in an unusually positive state of mind. After all the troubles and upset in her life she sounded like she might be finally finding some sort of balance. The only area of her life which seemed to be distressing her was the whole Kennedy mess.
I don't believe it could have been a straighforward suicide, not just because I like to believe that Marilyn was a stronger person than that, but because the amount of people who have changed their stories over and over again throughout the years. There was obviously a major cover-up going on. Which makes me wonder: why have a cover-up unless there is something terrible to hide?
I feel sure that when Marilyn awoke on the morning of August the 4th she had no intention of ending her life that night. If she did take her own life she must have been driven to it by some very distressing events.
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Robby
post Sep 15 2005, 03:56 PM
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I think Marilyn Monroe was murdred.
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rose
post Dec 22 2005, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(MM_Yvonne @ Jul 7 2004, 11:03 AM) [snapback]56750[/snapback]
yeah...i agree with you all....i know this sound horrible, but in a way it`s sort of good that she died...cuz if she was still alive, i don`t think she would have had so many fans.....i mean look at liz taylor...don`t think she has fans like us...but any way...that`s just my opinion


I know what you mean and I agree with you. I also know that it's difficult to express perfectly yourself with language that is not your own mother's tongue.

------------

I am so tired of reading about conspiracy-theories around Marilyn.I don't know either how she died but she did have history of taking overdoses to get attention so maybe she tried it and was going to call help and thinking that after seeing what almost had happened to her studio(etc) should treat her more gently,with respect whatever.But luck wasn't on her side.Noone came to save her and her "cry for attention" got a tragic,unexpected end.Marilyn died-the legend was born... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/sadballerina.gif)

This post has been edited by rose: Dec 22 2005, 02:38 PM
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Cuddlebottoms
post Jan 23 2006, 10:22 AM
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Rose, I loved how you quoted "Marilyn died-the legend was born..."
Thats very true.

Anywho-there are soooooooo many stories, rumors and just plain out unknown facts about her death, that it is hard for me to think about.
There are facts prooving some points but some that prove others.

Suicide: No. In my opinion, I highly doubt she would kill herself at that time. I mean, the day of her funeral she was suppossed to re-marry Joe. Plus she had other positive things surrounding her at that time. So why would she kill herself?

Murder: (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) That one is hard. 80% of me thinks it is, but the other 20% thinks it could be a possibility that it was an accident. Didn't, Greenson(was that his name) prescribe her some medication? And then some other doctors? I read somewhere on this board about that, but I am too tired to search through it all.

But all I know is I think this whole case should rest, because Marilyn is in a better place-however, I think Hughe's idea of resuming(hope I used that word right (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) her body out of the crypt might be a good idea. Just for another autopsy just to really find out, especially for us curious fans who are dying to know what really happened would probably give us some closure.

If she actually intended on killing herself and did it, to me, that is worse than murder.
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Celia
post Feb 25 2006, 12:53 PM
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I go with Sabine,
I have read all those shity books by Spoto and WOlfe and others, and Sabine has proved me that they were all lying. Sabine sent me some pics were we can see light coming out of Marilyn´s door. So they lied when they said no light could be seen. And she gave me other proofs too that they were lying.
I used to think she was murdered, then I changed my mind and came to the conclusion that it was an accident but now, I´m almost thought not 100 per cent sure, it was an intented suicide.
The only questions I have now is whether there was a cover up or not. I mean, did these people changed their stories over the years? Or they were changed by these authors and people like Slatzer just to sell us books???
Who said that Marilyn was found long before they called the police? ( Apparently Nathalie Jacobs is not reliable). Sabine was right when she told me there are lots of people who love to invent things regarding Marilyn because they feel important ( Think of Jeane Carmen, Slatzer, John Minor, etc)
The enema theory is unbelievable: excrements were found in Marilyn´s body, and she hadn´t eaten all day, so no possible enema!!
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ellen
post Feb 25 2006, 03:05 PM
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ok i have two words on this subject ASK SABINE (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)
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Robby
post Feb 25 2006, 09:00 PM
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Marilyn did ate that day. An grapefruit.
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Celia
post Feb 26 2006, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE(Robby @ Feb 25 2006, 09:00 PM) [snapback]99359[/snapback]
Marilyn did ate that day. An grapefruit.


Yes Robby a grapefruit for breakfast. That´s a lot of food!
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