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> How do you think Marilyn died?, Let's open the debate
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In your opinion, how did Marilyn die?
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moglet
post Jul 26 2004, 07:44 PM
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i think it was accidental, i think she felt depressed and took quite a lot of pills then she forgot how many she had and took some more, but only god knows ...
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MarilynForever86
post Jul 31 2004, 04:11 AM
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I believe that it was semi-accidental-overdose-meaning she obviously must have either thought the pills wouldnt kill her or kill her so fast and thought she would be saved. I believe that no one could save her in time-I'm saying this because she tried to "do away with herself" and someone was able to get her in time...
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MarilynForever86
post Jul 31 2004, 04:11 AM
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I wish she left a note, or an indication. What I do know is that we will never know..and perhaps thats for the best.
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Tamara
post Aug 5 2004, 07:58 PM
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I have put other because i am really not sure what i think, i think my opinion changes sometimes, i really do not know what to think.
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Nina
post Sep 15 2004, 08:59 PM
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I do believe she was murdered and voted so. It was for sure a cover up and it had to do with the Kennedys. For me there was never a real investigation of her death. Maybe she had a disapointment with RFK and it was really something dirty and he wanted to calm her down and he hit her and she fall down and was death because of a broken back of the neck. I just said this (it could be so or not like 1000 other things could have been - everything are "could have been theories") but what I want to say is that the causes of her death are never cleared, they have never been researched well... to tell the world she had commited suicide was the "easiest way" to find a story in 3 or 4 hours... the autopsy didn't proofed the pill theorie but couldn't gave another solution either (or they didn't wanted)...

And really, why did the FBI still make files when books (*l (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) l*) have been published more than 20years after her death? Don't they have other (more important) things to do?

JMO

This post has been edited by Nina: Sep 15 2004, 09:00 PM
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SugarKane69
post Sep 16 2004, 02:17 AM
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(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/niagarasing.gif) maybe she accidently overdosed, not knowing how many pills she was taking, maybe in a state of panic, or sadness, she unknowingly took too many pills, thats just one theory.... that poor beautiful woman, her life so tragic, just right out of shakespere. i just adore her so much..... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/niagarasing.gif)



"Creativity has got to start with humanity and when you're a human being, you feel, you suffer"-M.monroe.
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mels
post Sep 16 2004, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE(Nina @ Sep 15 2004, 09:59 PM)
the autopsy didn't proofed the pill theorie but couldn't gave another solution either (or they didn't wanted)...
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While I don't believe that she was murdered, I completly respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with this part of your post. The autopsy DID confirm that she died of an overdose. What the autopsy fails to demonstrate is how she overdosed, and that's where the whole controversy lies.
In a nutshell, what people question is the "probable suicide" conclusion made by what I call the "investigation squad" which includes the coroner and his office, as well as the suicide prevention team who investigated Marilyn's psychological condition at the moment of her death.

All acceptable theories have to include the fact that Marilyn ODed. From that there are tons of theories out there: injection, suicide, accident, enema, etc... (See my post here for discussion of some of them.

But it was never questionned that Marilyn died of something else than an overdose.
The amounts of Chloral Hydrate and Nembutal found in her liver were published in the autopsy report from the start, which mean the overdose is a fact.
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Nina
post Sep 16 2004, 10:53 PM
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k, well it's hard to tell what I mean - I will try again because I could have been try to discribe it a little better (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif)

The autopsy doesn't proofed the pill theorie because there were no pills in her stomach or little of it. So the autopsy couldn't give the answer, if she really died because of the fact of pills (as they say) or if it was taken/given in luiqid via a needle or enema. It's not proofed for sure (100%) that she had taken pills that was what I mean (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif) - that she died because of an overdose was or is clear for me too.

But what people say what happend is not always what really happend. Maybe everyone should just think it was the way it did.

(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/sadballerina.gif)
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mels
post Sep 16 2004, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE(Nina @ Sep 16 2004, 11:53 PM)
k, well it's hard to tell what I mean - I will try again because I could have been try to discribe it a little better (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif)

The autopsy doesn't proofed the pill theorie because there were no pills in her stomach or little of it. So the autopsy couldn't give the answer, if she really died because of the fact of pills (as they say) or if it was taken/given in luiqid via a needle or enema. It's not proofed for sure (100%) that she had taken pills that was what I mean (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif) - that she died because of an overdose was or is clear for me too.

But what people say what happend is not always what really happend. Maybe everyone should just think it was the way it did.

(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/sadballerina.gif)
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Oh okay I think I understand better now!
Indeed the autopsy says "overdose" but can't say how it was provoqued...

So I guess we agree on that one (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif) Sorry I misunderstood in the first place, I thought you meant that the autopsy didn't prove that she had ODed from Nembs and/or CH. Now that I read your message again I don't understand why I understood that LOL! Soooorryyyy (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
Still love me ? (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif)
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Nina
post Sep 17 2004, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE(mels @ Sep 16 2004, 10:56 PM)


(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/hug.gif) oh sure dear (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/hug.gif) always and forever, hehehe (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif) it was my fault!!!
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BeyondCamelot
post Sep 19 2004, 11:11 PM
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Well.. As a Kennedy fan, first off, I do not believe the Kennedys killed her, intentionally or otherwise. Were they involved in a coverup? Indirectly, yes. I've read over 60 books on the Kennedys, and I like to think I know their personalities as much as someone could have for never meeting them. Bobby was ruthless, yes, but he wasn't a killer. The problem about the idea that the Kennedys were the only ones involved in the murder & coverup is insane, honestly. Could the Kennedy family, alone, have the knowledge of medicine to fake an overdose, destroy all evidence, botch the autopsy, and leave a mystery still going 42 years later? I really, really, don't think so. The Kennedys were lawyers, politicians. Not doctors. JFK himself couldn't have been involved, because of his bad back ( ruptured disc suffered in the attack of PT109, followed by several botched operations ) - he could hardly walk half the time ( the reason he himself didn't slump down during his own assassination is his rigid back brace ), let alone be physically capable of murder.

I think, more or less, the media had a part in the Kennedy affair coverup. It's been documented that the media turned a blind-eye to JFK's affairs during his lifetime, partially out of respect for Jackie & the kids. My grandfather heard, around 1961, from someone who knew a top Kennedy aide, that JFK was having affairs, and he's told me before how he was blown away because the media wasn't covering it and it was the President of the US. The most "explosive" scandal coming forth in the few years after JFK died is a magazine reporting the rumor that JFK had Addison's disease ( this magazine was 1971, I believe ), which wasn't proven until a few years ago. It's entirely possible that yes, RFK had a hand in the destruction of the diary, if it wasn't done by James Angleton ( who was known to have taken possession of ANOTHER diary featuring information about another woman's affair with JFK after her death in October 1964 ).

There's a theory that the mafia killed Marilyn as a warning to RFK to stop attempting to get Jimmy Hoffa, which is why the mystery of her death has never been solved. The theory continues that, when RFK still didn't give it up, the mafia was in on the murder of JFK ( which is linked to the fact Jack Ruby, who shot alleged assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, was a mafia gunrunner ). However, when RFK was running for President, and Hoffa's people had a contract out? RFK's assassinated himself, in a hotel pantry.

Personally, I think there was foul play involved, but I'm not sure as to what extent. Maybe in the actual death, maybe in the crime scene alteration area, who really knows?
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Scottish Sugar
post Sep 22 2004, 08:04 PM
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I think suicide
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Tara
post Sep 22 2004, 09:14 PM
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I think it was an accident - I don't believe she was suicidal at that time. I think there was a cover-up by the Kennedys, and also Dr Greenson and Eunice Murray, in the hours after her death. I don't think she was murdered though.

But this is just my opinion - I don't really know for sure. Actually it makes me sad just to write this.
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chris
post Sep 23 2004, 12:23 PM
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I think that it was a medical error, an accident not really a murder but for sure no suicide
Chris


I saw a few days ago an interesting documentary on Discovery Channel and I learnt many things they explained especially why at the autopsy the coroner didn't discover pills
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mels
post Sep 23 2004, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE(chris @ Sep 23 2004, 01:23 PM)
I think that it was a medical error, an accident not really a murder but for sure no suicide
Chris


I saw a few days ago an interesting documentary on Discovery Channel and I learnt many things they explained especially why at the autopsy the coroner didn't discover pills
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I saw this wonderful documentary very recently and I really loved it. For once the producers tried to explain what interests us all and made experiments to find the real answer.
There were some mistakes in it though, that were later acknowledged by the doctor who made the pills experiment. You can read more about that here (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif)
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Fav
post Oct 3 2004, 05:27 PM
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I just discovered yet another old documentary I taped in the 80's. It's called Norma Jean alias Marilyn Monroe and is hosted by French actress Catherine Deneuve. They play an audio tape of an interview Marilyn did with Georges Belmont in 1960. In it she states that 'I think that love and work are the only things that really happen to us and everything else doesn't really matter.One without the other isn't so good. I think that trying to be happy is almost as difficult as trying to be a good actress. You have to work at both of them'.

Catherine points out that around the time she died she had been fired from her work and there wasn't anyone special in her life love wise. This may have thrown her into despair. To quote Catherine 'One supposes that a few years later when she was fired, as she put it, and there was no-one in her life just then it didn't leave her much consolation. She must have had moments of despair and depression, short perhaps but crushing, devastating to her. Days when she hated herself. Times when she gave up all hope'.

To actually hear Marilyn saying the words quoted above is very powerful and makes you wonder. Catherine's thoughts make you wonder too.
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BlondeAmbition
post Oct 23 2004, 06:49 PM
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I believe Spoto's theory. It makes the most sense to me. I believe either Greenson or Ms.Murray gave Marilyn an enema of chloral hydrate to calm her down or in effort to get her under control, without knowing about the Nembutal. Chloral hydrate and Nembutal do not mix, and as Spoto puts it, it was the chloral hydrate that put Marilyn "over the edge". I believe Greenson made a huge mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. In their attempts to keep Marilyn in their control and stay in her life, Greenson and Murray accidently killed her, and proceeded to cover it up, i.e. the washing of the bedsheets, and all the conflicting stories and lies. A tragic accident. I used to want to believe in a murder theory involving the Kennedys, but as I said, after looking over all the possible death theories, this one makes most sense to me.
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Nicotschka
post Feb 12 2005, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE(Nina @ Sep 15 2004, 08:59 PM)
I do believe she was murdered and voted so. It was for sure a cover up and it had to do with the Kennedys. For me there was never a real investigation of her death. Maybe she had a disapointment with RFK and it was really something dirty and he wanted to calm her down and he hit her and she fall down and was death because of a broken back of the neck. I just said this (it could be so or not like 1000 other things could have been - everything are "could have been theories") but what  I want to say is that the causes of her death are never cleared, they have never been researched well... to tell the world she had commited suicide was the "easiest way" to find a story in 3 or 4 hours... the autopsy didn't proofed the pill theorie but couldn't gave another solution either (or they didn't wanted)...

And really, why did the FBI still make files when books (*l (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) l*) have been published more than 20years after her death? Don't they have other (more important) things to do?
 
JMO
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I totally agree with Nina! For me the Kennedys killed her. Marilyn tried sometimes to kill herself, but she did it always with the chance of beeing founded by someone. And, my god I can't believe that she killed herself with an enema. How? And, why? If it would have been a suicide she would have taken the pills via the normal way...
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strawberry
post Feb 12 2005, 08:57 PM
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I think it was an accidental death, but I'm keeping my mind open entirely. The best reason I've ever read was in a book, I don't remember which, and it's stuck with me. It was something along the lines of 'she wanted to die for the night, not forever'. I think that's probably true. I suffer from depression and I've often just wanted to drown out the pain but I'm terrified of death. I'd have been quite happy to leave my life for a few hours during my lowest time, and I think Marilyn was too, but not for good. So yes, I think it was probably accidental. A cry for help, perhaps, or just her way of keeping herself and her problems under wraps, but it all went wrong. :(
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hazy
post Feb 22 2005, 04:31 AM
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I think she was murdered.
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