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> How do you think Marilyn died?, Let's open the debate
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In your opinion, how did Marilyn die?
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Margherita
post Nov 11 2013, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE(Jules @ Nov 1 2013, 05:24 AM) *
I'm leaning towards Greenson being a key player.

How long until we do reach a moment of real and final closure? Until I'm an old lady in 50-something years?

I feel the truth does exist somewhere out there, and they're waiting up people "don't care" as much anymore. Problem is, people care more now than they ever did.


In my opinion Greenson was a scapegoat, in right place, right time, but he didn't plan to kill Marilyn, instead save her.



But I don't think people in general - special MM-fans excluded - care more now that they ever did, most younger generations have hard to remember and define who Marilyn actually was and what did she look like.

This post has been edited by Margherita: Nov 13 2013, 08:52 PM
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Celia
post Nov 23 2013, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE(Margherita @ Nov 11 2013, 09:01 PM) *
In my opinion Greenson was a scapegoat, in right place, right time, but he didn't plan to kill Marilyn, instead save her.
But I don't think people in general - special MM-fans excluded - care more now that they ever did, most younger generations have hard to remember and define who Marilyn actually was and what did she look like.


Really? Do you think these are the last generations who will ever know who Marilyn was? I think this could be a good topic for the discussion thread. I think I am going to open one and see what people think. I am curious about it!
Thanks for the idea.
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Margherita
post Dec 10 2013, 08:53 PM
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I don't think that we are the last generation, or the next last, that will know who Marilyn was - she will remain in history.

But maybe in the future she is not approached so passionately and intimately, more like just somebody who once lived. Unfortunately that's how the history goes, unless the person is very colorful and meaningful.

Then again - Marilyn is !!

I've read ( and seen paintings ) quite a lot about Frida Kahlo, who in my opinion was just as colorful, eccentric and unforgettable as Marilyn, and well, she died already 1954 but is still a person of whom millions of people are interested and love her.

So Marilyn lived some years longer, is an unforgettable personality of whom a lot of people make new findings, like for instance her "Fragments" and I suppose there are new to come up, both hilarious and positive, and maybe something sad etc.
The life around Marilyn was also connected to so many people in movies, theatre, literature, poets, cities.

And it's not that you must be interested about somebody who didn't die so long ago, you don't have to have lived when the person was still alive, the decades don't matter.

So I partly draw back what I said - she will be remembered (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/jumpymm.gif)
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KingAl
post May 16 2015, 04:03 PM
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I didn't vote for suicide , because almost all the known facts, about her death and days before she finally departed go in favor of a murder. The mystery is who and why. Even if it was accidental overdose there was so much Nembutal in her blood that could kill an elephant ,yet there were no water no liquid at all in the bedroom and not a single capsule in her stomach or intestines. There are a couple of good documentaries about it such as Say Goodbye to the President, and History Mysteries- - The Death Of Marilyn Monroe. Well I would disregard Mrs Carmen as a real witness or a friend of Marilyn ( may be she knew Marilyn but there were not close friends or ... who knows). In last year or two of her life she really started to mix with politics , she had already file in CIA/FBI under letter C ( Communist) she did visit Cal Neva Lodge ( there are photos as evidence) yet she was not depressed at that time. Just look at her last photo session at Santa Monica beech by George Barris or listen to her last interview.
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Eva
post May 17 2015, 03:55 AM
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QUOTE(KingAl @ May 16 2015, 04:03 PM) *
I didn't vote for suicide , because almost all the known facts, about her death and days before she finally departed go in favor of a murder. The mystery is who and why. Even if it was accidental overdose there was so much Nembutal in her blood that could kill an elephant ,yet there were no water no liquid at all in the bedroom and not a single capsule in her stomach or intestines. There are a couple of good documentaries about it such as Say Goodbye to the President, and History Mysteries- - The Death Of Marilyn Monroe. Well I would disregard Mrs Carmen as a real witness or a friend of Marilyn ( may be she knew Marilyn but there were not close friends or ... who knows). In last year or two of her life she really started to mix with politics , she had already file in CIA/FBI under letter C ( Communist) she did visit Cal Neva Lodge ( there are photos as evidence) yet she was not depressed at that time. Just look at her last photo session at Santa Monica beech by George Barris or listen to her last interview.


There was a recent documentary here in the UK done by a renowned pathologist who had went through Marilyn's personal medical files, he came to the conclusion that both the Chloral and Nembutal which was taken together was a lethal combination and the main factor why Marilyn had stopped breathing and her trying to phone for help? And yes there was a glass tumbler next to her bed side
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KingAl
post May 20 2015, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE(Eva @ May 17 2015, 03:55 AM) *
There was a recent documentary here in the UK done by a renowned pathologist who had went through Marilyn's personal medical files, he came to the conclusion that both the Chloral and Nembutal which was taken together was a lethal combination and the main factor why Marilyn had stopped breathing and her trying to phone for help? And yes there was a glass tumbler next to her bed side

But what happened after she called? There was another documentary where basically the ambulance arrives and starts resuscitation and she starts breathing again but then Dr Greenson arrives and gives her something like hypodermic adrenalin injection but there ws no adrenalin in it instead of it it was more nembutal directly into her bloodstream or chloral hydrate.
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Fav
post May 21 2015, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(KingAl @ May 20 2015, 04:01 PM) *
But what happened after she called? There was another documentary where basically the ambulance arrives and starts resuscitation and she starts breathing again but then Dr Greenson arrives and gives her something like hypodermic adrenalin injection but there ws no adrenalin in it instead of it it was more nembutal directly into her bloodstream or chloral hydrate.


The programme said she tried to call Ralph Roberts but did not answer. It is likely she slipped into unconciousness after that. It is really hard to know what to believe isn't it. We'll never know for definite if there was any foul play. IF the autopsy record is to be believed, there was no puncture wounds on the body for an injection site so Greenson wouldn't have done that. It's hard to believe she was murdered - maybe that is because I just can't get my head around that. However it being an accident or a cry for help gone wrong does fit and make complete sense. But if someone wanted us to think that, they could also do that with her track record. Personally I think it was an accident.
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a monroeist
post Aug 12 2015, 12:36 PM
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Impossible accident.

Very good toxicological analysis: http://southernwingsaircraft.com/howmarilyndied.html

It was murder. Simply nothing else could it be. We don't know who or why did it but that was it. Scietifically proven by the very toxicological evidence in the official files of the investigation.

This post has been edited by a monroeist: Aug 12 2015, 12:38 PM
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Mariposa
post Feb 13 2016, 02:55 PM
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I've read a lot about Marilyn and researched things online and watched the various TV programs about her - for years now.One of the things which clinched it for me was the fact she had so much planned both in the future and also the IMMEDIATE future. Despite all the smoke screens regarding Something's Got To Give I don't think she decided at THAT particular time to kill herself. Also, I don't think it was an accident - Marilyn was in touch with many many people on the phone including on the west coast - if she had made a mistake or lost track they could have come to her aid.

I agree with the last poster - she WAS murdered.I remember when I came to that final conclusion - I felt SO sad for her and about the lost years ahead of her when I'm sure her acting talents would just have gone on and on getting better on stage too as well as on screen. Like Brigitte Bardot I could see her doing a lot for the welfare of animals and for the children she loved etc etc

She knew the wrong people and her integrity wouldn't allow her to keep silent - ironically the fact of her death speaks louder and echoes down the years.

Poor darling Mazza!
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