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> How do you think Marilyn died?, Let's open the debate
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In your opinion, how did Marilyn die?
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mberton
post May 24 2013, 12:53 AM
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I believe Mona Rae Miracle. Marilyn's death was simply a tragic accident. From an interview:

'But I do not subscribe to any of these murder or suicide theories or her supposed affair with President Kennedy. None of it is true. It was an accident. She had so many appointments booked. The day after she died she was going to see producers and then a lawyer to change her will.

'And I know she was planning on remarrying Joe. He was really the love of her life. They knew what they wanted out of life at that point and they could have made it work.'

IMO, if anyone is to blame it is her doctors who did not keep track of each other's prescriptions.
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Margherita
post May 31 2013, 04:09 PM
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This post has been edited by Margherita: Jun 4 2013, 10:49 AM
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Mara
post Aug 11 2013, 04:52 PM
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Overall..... I don't think it matters. If she was murdered and what's documented about it is true, practically all the evidence has been burned. Most of the people in question are dead. And those who are still alive, aren't saying anything about it. In the meantime, we're here reading books on the numerous scenarios in which Marilyn, inevitably, dies. Is anyone else sick of this? I mean, here I am, reading this book in which Marilyn was killed by the Kennedys, killed by the mob, killed by her doctor, or she committed suicide because of (insert numerous reasons here), or it was accidental because she or someone else didn't know about the dosage and reactions between drugs.

I mean, I want to know, I want some closure because I think that although Marilyn had her faults, she was a pretty decent person whose death is shrouded in mystery. But how do you find the truth if no one else can? Isn't this just f*cking morbid? Hundreds of books describing how she dies the moments before her death. And each one provides absolutely no closure because there's another book coming out next month that's saying "That one's wrong!"

I think it's sad that she's dead, but I think what's even sadder is that we can't make out the details of her life, and because of it, are unable to let her die....
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Margherita
post Aug 12 2013, 04:52 PM
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Many of the books apppearing every third month may be only for cash - but I'm sure there has been serious investigation on her death, investigation into citizen's death, but it can't be revealed. So a lot of people have known and still know excactly how and why she died but it's not public. Not yet.



This post has been edited by Margherita: Aug 12 2013, 05:04 PM
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Mara
post Aug 13 2013, 03:00 PM
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I think so too. Though like others, I'm torn between accidental and murder, partly because I'm trying to keep a level head. You bring up murder to anyone in regards to Marilyn and they look at you like your nuts, which I can understand somewhat. If Marilyn was murdered there's someone to blame, if she did it to herself it hurts people, and if it was an accident it's frustrating because it's no one's fault. Though I guess there's still room for blame depending on, a) Why Marilyn committed suicide, and, b) Exactly how was it an accident.

Basically, it has a connotation; if you believe she was murdered, you're in denial that she killed herself.

I hope that it gets resolved someday. Though that's probably just wishful thinking on my part....
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Celia
post Aug 19 2013, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE(Nightwatcher @ Nov 30 2010, 10:07 AM) *
Based on everything I've read about Marilyn's death, I will never believe that she killed herself. I won't ever believe that her death was an accident either. She was murdered, and it was very obviously covered up. Marilyn made a huge mistake in telling anyone about her red diary. Telling people that she was going to hold a Press Conference the Monday following her death didn't help matters either.



You should know all that theory ( red diary), The Kennedys, etc, was made up by Robert Slazter, a man who invented he had been married to her and had just two pics with her. None of the friends of Marilyn ever heard of that diary. It simply didnīt exist. There are too many people trying to get attention and/ or money in the sake of Marilyn. If I were you , I wouldnīt belive everything I read.
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Margherita
post Aug 21 2013, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE(Celia @ Aug 19 2013, 04:57 PM) *
You should know all that theory ( red diary), The Kennedys, etc, was made up by Robert Slazter, a man who invented he had been married to her and had just two pics with her. None of the friends of Marilyn ever heard of that diary. It simply didnīt exist. There are too many people trying to get attention and/ or money in the sake of Marilyn. If I were you , I wouldnīt belive everything I read.


Actually Robert Slatzer was not the only person who had heard about the red diary or Marilyn making notes of all kinds of things she heard, a lot of people talked about her doing it and also about her diary, who cares whether it was red or other color. What Slatzer and Carmen told were probably based on things also they had heard or read after Marilyn had died, so they can be skipped in this case - though it is not yet completely proved that Slatzer never contacted Marilyn, let's say by a phone, and Marilyn could have considered him as a tedious fan, therefore not wanting to have anything to do with him etc.

In theory, Slatzer COULD have had snapshots of Marilyn, taken during some short acquaintance they may have had years ago, then vanished them, maybe accidentally or maybe in a state of anger. But this is just speculating, probably Slatzer was a full blodied fraud.

Marilyn and the Kennedys was a rumour that was spreading around spring and summer of -62, not Slatzer's invention - after Marilyn died, many other people wrote accounts based on that rumour and many of them claimed the rumours were based on facts, that Marilyn did have something going on with the Bros.

After Marilyn's death, Slatzer kept silent for 10 years, then wrote his book which's many issues are based on stories he heard had been circulating among people who had known Marilyn or had heard about things concerning her death - Slatzer put them together - and why he decided to add the detail that he had been also married with Marilyn, - probably of personal reasons.
Many of the stories he told about Marilyn's last summer, like that they had been driving the Pacific Coast highway a lot and that Marilyn had told that "Robert Kennedy promised to marry me" are most likely Slatzer's fantasy - but many things he writes in his books can be found in various other books and accounts and magazine articles, told by people who hadn't read Slatzer's book or heard about him.
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brandonheidrick
post Sep 25 2013, 07:50 PM
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Greenson's brother-in-law was Marilyn's lawyer. Greenson invited a patient to live with his family, which is unethical. Greenson planted a spy in Marilyn's home. Marilyn had originally thought of returning to New York to live, but Greenson pushed her to buy a home in LA so she'd stay close to him. He also started cutting people that were close to Marilyn out of her life. He wanted Paula and Pat Newcomb fired. Greenson went on Fox's payroll. He also suggested his good friend Weinstein become producer for SGTG. The man had an unbelievable ego and was using her and manipulating her to better himself! He made her dependent on him. He also recorded some of their therapy sessions. Just think ... if she was having any sort of relationship with the Kennedy men, and she mentioned it in therapy and it was recorded ... if someone got those tapes of her privately discussions with her Dr. This would be a powerful weapon! Even if someone THOUGHT they existed. Marilyn had fired Eunice a couple times, but Eunice really wouldn't leave. Marilyn never called her by her first name either, just Mrs. Murray. She called her psychiatrist Romeo and Romey.

Marilyn would never have gone public with an affair. No matter how good her PR skills, Marilyn would not have been able to spin it to make herself look good in public opinion. The country loved Jackie Kennedy and Marilyn would have come off as a home-wrecker even if she was a partial victim. I doubt she'd throw her reputation away out of being scorned.

But here's something no one else has mentioned. Marilyn's political opinions were far left. Arthur Miller's views had rubbed off on her. Her recently released FBI files show that Marilyn had showed far left views while engaging in dinner conversation with Robert Kennedy. She challenged him. Also, someone in her entourage reported to the FBI all of her actions while in Mexico. She met with known-communists, namely Frederick Vanderbilt Field. She showed romantic interest in Jose Bolanos. Now who in Marilyn's small circle would be informing the FBI of Marilyn's business in Mexico? The FBI files do have some information wrong. They have Eunice's name as "Eunice Churchill" instead of "Eunice Murray". Eunice's brother-in-law, a communist that lived in Mexico was named "Churchill Murray".

Why was the FBI so afraid of people holding communist views and far left political beliefs?

So here you have a huge movie star with ties and connections to communism, the Kennedy family, and mafia associates.

Why did Joe DiMaggio ban her "friends" from the funeral, and have a life-long hatred for the Kennedy family? Why did Joe hate his former friend Sinatra and blame him for contributing to Marilyn's death?

So much to process. I don't believe she was in the state of mind to intentionally kill herself. I think Greenson and Murray played a huge part in her death.
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MarilynIloveU
post Oct 10 2013, 07:59 PM
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If she felt anything like I do right now, which I'm certain she did at times (I have BPD and believe probably did Marilyn did too), then suicide after 36 years of feeling like shit is very possible.

However in truth I think she was murdered by Greenson, I despise that man he was a prize bastard in my opinion. Whether it was under instruction from the Kennedy's or someone else, or maybe he had an infatuation with her and couldn't handle the idea that maybe she'd get together with Joe again, who knows.
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Zebo
post Oct 12 2013, 03:12 PM
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I voted it was an accident--a kind of slow, careless suicide, if you will. She didn't deliberately do it, but had become sloppy, down, absent-minded, nonchalant. It was only a matter of time, the writing was on the wall. If she was murdered, it really was the most pointless murder ever. Frankly I can't believe people even believe that theory, but then again there are people who believe Bigfoot married Jackie Onassis and is living on Jupiter, so there's that.
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MarilynIloveU
post Oct 13 2013, 12:42 AM
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It would have been hard for her to overdose herself on an enema wouldn't it? I mean it appears she had no trace of pills in her stomach.

I have to say it is very hard to overdose and kill yourself, so deaths this way are not as easy as people think (purposely or not).
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Alanma
post Oct 13 2013, 01:25 PM
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Enemas were a popular fad at the time, amazingly, as a way of losing weight! The idea was that nutrients would be more directly absorbed into the system, so avoiding the build of fat in the tissues. That same property of quick absorbtion would obviously aid the effect of a drug, or lead to a normal dose becoming an over-dose.
Enemas could be self-administered, but did not Mrs Murray state that she did the Honours for Marilyn on occasion ?
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Margherita
post Oct 16 2013, 10:57 AM
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Read what Peter Brown and Pattie Barham write about her death and who ( maybe ) did it and why, in their interview of ex-CIA-worker in the book "Marilyn, the last take".




This post has been edited by Margherita: Oct 16 2013, 11:04 AM
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Eva
post Oct 16 2013, 03:31 PM
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Enemas could of been self-administered, but to ask her house maid to do this does sounds very personal to have someone who Marilyn was not really that close too? Didn't Marilyn want Eunice to leave her employ and not come back after her vacation, also the last cheque Marilyn had signed for on the last day?

We here all sorts of theories on Marilyns death some make good stories, and others make scandalous reading all what these publishers are in it for?
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MarilynIloveU
post Oct 20 2013, 02:00 AM
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Well, if she was already out of it and had trouble self administering it, she may not of had a choice but to ask that Eunice (who I also hate).
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Celia
post Oct 25 2013, 05:29 PM
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I saw a documentary where Mrs. Murray says Marilyn was very quite that day, and that she didnīt think she killed herself intentionally but it was rather an accident.
My question is: If Marilyn was so quite the whole day. why did Mrs. Murray, as she also claimed, called Dr. Greenson in the afternoon, because Marilyn was so disturbed and needed therapy? It doesnīt make sense.
I have the feeling this time she is saying the truth when she states that Marilyn was very quite. But then, it would be false that Dr. Greenson had to be called.
I tend to think it was an accident. But, really, there are too many strange details in the whole story. Maybe what happened to her is similar to what happened to Michael Jackson. The doctor went too far and killed her unintentionally, but of course, then they had to cover this up. Mrs. Murray was friends with him, and Dr. Engelberg may have helped too.

This post has been edited by Celia: Oct 25 2013, 05:31 PM
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MarilynIloveU
post Oct 29 2013, 11:35 PM
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Being disturbed doesn't necessarily mean she was hysterical. It's possible Murray meant Marilyn was unusually quiet.
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Celia
post Oct 30 2013, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE(MarilynIloveU @ Oct 29 2013, 11:35 PM) *
Being disturbed doesn't necessarily mean she was hysterical. It's possible Murray meant Marilyn was unusually quiet.


What I mean is that if a person is very quite, as Murray stated, there is no use in calling a doctor. I know what you mean. But, people call doctors when they observe there is something very wrong. And if she was very quite, I wonder what Murray observed in Marilyn in order to call her doctor. Another possibility of course would be the Marilyn herself demanded it. But I remember having read the opposite.
Anyway, I am not saying that MM was murdered. I tend to think it was an accident, but sometimes one reads things that make you think. I just found this fact weird.

This post has been edited by Celia: Oct 30 2013, 06:19 PM
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Jules
post Nov 1 2013, 04:24 AM
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I think it was murder. I'd say I'm about 80% sure of it. I don't buy the suicide thing and I think the whole situation is too sketchy to be considered an accident. For a while, I thought it was an accident, but some of the stuff is just too strange. I'm leaning towards Greenson being a key player.

Will we ever know for sure!? "Possible suicide" isn't an acceptable COD by today's standard. How long until we do reach a moment of real and final closure? Until I'm an old lady in 50-something years? I can wait, but I'd rather not. Will we have to wait until everyone that may know something is dead before the truth really comes out? If I ever have a lot of money someday, it's going towards a full blown investigation and reevaluation, because there have been days when I just sit there and stare at my TV's guide screen and see another conspiracy theory doc on MM's death and I say "why can't we just get the truth already!?"

I feel the truth does exist somewhere out there, and they're waiting up people "don't care" as much anymore. Problem is, people care more now than they ever did.
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MarilynIloveU
post Nov 1 2013, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE(Celia @ Oct 30 2013, 05:18 PM) *
What I mean is that if a person is very quite, as Murray stated, there is no use in calling a doctor. I know what you mean. But, people call doctors when they observe there is something very wrong. And if she was very quite, I wonder what Murray observed in Marilyn in order to call her doctor. Another possibility of course would be the Marilyn herself demanded it. But I remember having read the opposite.
Anyway, I am not saying that MM was murdered. I tend to think it was an accident, but sometimes one reads things that make you think. I just found this fact weird.


To be honest Murray is too untrustworthy. My bet would be she would have called Greenson over something minor. In a normal circumstance what you are saying about calling a doctor only when something is very wrong fits but this was an unhealthy relationship, laced with transference and countertransference.

QUOTE(Jules @ Nov 1 2013, 03:24 AM) *
I think it was murder. I'd say I'm about 80% sure of it. I don't buy the suicide thing and I think the whole situation is too sketchy to be considered an accident. For a while, I thought it was an accident, but some of the stuff is just too strange. I'm leaning towards Greenson being a key player.

Will we ever know for sure!? "Possible suicide" isn't an acceptable COD by today's standard. How long until we do reach a moment of real and final closure? Until I'm an old lady in 50-something years? I can wait, but I'd rather not. Will we have to wait until everyone that may know something is dead before the truth really comes out? If I ever have a lot of money someday, it's going towards a full blown investigation and reevaluation, because there have been days when I just sit there and stare at my TV's guide screen and see another conspiracy theory doc on MM's death and I say "why can't we just get the truth already!?"

I feel the truth does exist somewhere out there, and they're waiting up people "don't care" as much anymore. Problem is, people care more now than they ever did.


I don't think we'll ever know for sure, too much time has passed. Even if a TV network did investigate it, I doubt the authorities will; it's not in their interest, the vast majority of people who were around when Marilyn died are dead now. Of course files may leak but I tend to believe most stuff was destroyed years ago, other wise it would have come out now for certain.

I think we should just enjoy her films and remember her for them and her beauty.
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