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> How do you think Marilyn died?, Let's open the debate
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In your opinion, how did Marilyn die?
You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Total Votes: 202
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Chrissie
post Feb 27 2009, 05:13 PM
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I chose "Other" as I truly do not know.
It is clear to me through this and the autopsy report that she did not ingest pills, which is the easiest suicide route.
As for injections or enemas, what is the likelihood that Marilyn had these things on hand?
Is it plausible that her doctor gave her these things when she already had a prescription for the medications in pill form?
Marilyn was known to be a boozer and a pill-popper. If she had committed suicide, I think it would be safe to say she had been drinking before she made the decision to end her life. Thus, more liquid in her stomach. Does anyone know if a blood alcohol level test was done during the autopsy? Also, since she was a pill-popper, why the change in M.O.? Why would she choose to end her life through injection(s) or enema(s) when she could just take a few extra pills?
It's all very conflicting. There was most definately a cover-up and we'll never know exactly what the extent of it was.
Too many shady characters out to protect themselves.
Too many un-answered questions... or too many questions with nonsense answers.
Maybe one day something will bubble to the surface... a diary tucked away in a bookshelf, long forgotten, revealing the truth.
Until then we can pick and choose what we want to believe.
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tinily
post Nov 18 2010, 10:38 PM
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Hello at all,
first, sorry if I write anything wrong, but I`m from germany and my english is not so good.

I don't think Marilyn was killed or it was an accident.
Many years I thought this. I couldn't believe that such a beautiful woman ends with her life.

I saw movies where people said, that she had more Nembutal in her body that you could kill 12 horses and nothig was found in her stomach. No fingerprints wasn't found in her house...and so on. All mysterious.

But now I think that's bosh.

She was sad, depressive. I think i know she has felt.
To be pretty and a star makes you happy for a while, but not for life.
If you have no family, no one who cares for you, if you wish to have a child, but it never happen.

The man/men you love, don't love you anymore, you are alone, than you think: what am I living for?
I think she thought that she had no future.
She was the alltime sexsymbol for the filmindustrie.
And maybe she was right. She had no bright spot.

I know by now that pills in short time can solved in a stomach and I think the story with the lost fingerprints is just a story.

Why should Kennedy or any other kill Marilyn? Why?

It's very sad but I think Marilyn, Norma Jeane, don't wanted to live anymore and I can feel with her.
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tinily
post Nov 18 2010, 11:07 PM
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I've forgotten something.....

Although you take pills to die, or you jump from a house, you WILL die, but when the moment comes and you (your body) feels "I die", than you will fight for your live.
You can ask any doctor, but thats the normal instinktive reaction from any creature.

And it's normal that Marilyn gripped her phone at that moment. There is nothing mysterious.

Why should her housekeeper or doctor wanted to kill her??? Stop with it please!

Let her please rest in peace and don't make people mad.

I don't think that Marilyn would like, that anyone speak so bad about people that she probably loved and who were good to her.
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Nightwatcher
post Nov 30 2010, 09:07 AM
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Based on everything I've read about Marilyn's death, I will never believe that she killed herself. I won't ever believe that her death was an accident either. She was murdered, and it was very obviously covered up. Marilyn made a huge mistake in telling anyone about her red diary. Telling people that she was going to hold a Press Conference the Monday following her death didn't help matters either.
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Tiina
post Dec 3 2010, 08:54 PM
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I can't remember whether I voted or not, but if I could vote now, I'd vote for accidental overdose although I think it could have been a suicide as well.

There was a time when I firmly believed she was murdered by her housekeeper and Dr. Greenson. Then I changed my mind and I believed they killed her accidentally. But that was years ago and my opinion has changed as I've read more and more about Marilyn.

This is just my opinion and I base my views on what people who know her personally have said about her as a person, her mental state and her behaviour and also my own personal experiences with some issues Marilyn had troubles with that I do too.

We all know Marilyn had a lot of emotional problems because of her unstable childhood and I think it has to be noted that inheritable mental illnesses such as psychosis, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia ran strong in her family - her gradmother was psychotic and had manic depression which is same as bipolar disorder and then of course her mom was also psychotic as well as schizophrenic - I'd say that Marilyn herself suffered of a pretty severe depression throughtout her life, so she was more than just a "sad and lonely girl" as they say, I think she had depressive disorder at least and it shouldn't be belittled, it's a real illness. I also think that there is a possibility that she might have been bipolar which I will explain more about a little further.

Marilyn suffered of severe insomnia; I know what it does to a person because I suffer of it as well and I can easily say it's the root of all kinds problems in the psyche and unbalance in life and as much as I love Marilyn, I'd say she was already an unbalanced person (which was absolutely not her own fault; like I said, her problems were mostly caused by her background, genes and also the tough business she was in), so I'm sure insomnia worsened her mental state and in the end things were pretty bad. The effects of insomnia definitely showed in her working - not in the quality of her work, but how she worked because she was constantly late and had problems with her memory and therefore couldn't remember her lines etc.

Then there was the "pill popping". It's been said Marilyn took those pills like vitamin tablets. Susan Strasberg said that at the time, nobody knew about the dangers of taking one too many sleeping pills because what the doctor ordered was supposed to be very good for you and Marilyn took pills to fall asleep as well as to wake up, didn't she? Her doses got increasingly bigger and bigger throughtout the years because after she had been taken some amount of pills to fall asleep, like say two or whatever, those two did nothing to her and she had to keep taking more and more to get some effect out of them. To make matters worse, Susan said that sometimes Marilyn forgot how many she had taken and that was of course extremely dangerous as it would be to anybody. Here's a very sad moment from Susan's book that really caught my attention:

"Another late night after the show, I was puttering around in the kitchen when I heard sounds from the hallway. A white figure was crawling down the hallway on its hands and knees. It was Marilyn. She was only going across the way from my brother's bedroom to my parents', but she was moving slowly, sluggishly, on all fours. Her progress seemed interminable. "Lee, Lee..." she whimpered. She had taken too many pills again. She would forget and take more and then remember, too late."

Susan also said Marilyn drank excessively and as a person she was "unpredictable, explosive, impulsive, easily distracted." and that was already in the mid 1950's. Now, we all have our good qualities as well as bad ones and Marilyn was only a human being and I bare that in mind as I'm writing this, but to me that doesn't sound like a very stable person. And the pills and the habit of drinking sure didn't help her already unstable mind and life.

To me the image of Marilyn is, while she was a smart, kind and witty woman with courage, willpower and talent, she had an extremely dark, sad, depressive side to her too. It could easily be an indication of her being bipolar. Marilyn could have inherited the illness from her grandmother (I believe it was Spoto who brought that up in his book as well). That's only me guessing but whatever it was, as Susan described, Marilyn was pretty moody in real life, but for the public she put on her best act and they adored her to death, like we still do. Her character was like the colours black and white. To the public she was the golden girl; always smiling and happy. She was beautiful, famous, rich and loved by her fans but as in the case of Marilyn, none of those things bring true happiness to a person and certainly not for a person like Marilyn who had had such a sad childhood without her real parents, having to go to an orphanage and being a victim of sexual assault among countless other sad things that would make any person an unstable adult. Everybody loved her but where did Marilyn belong to? Nowhere and no one. I bet that in some ways, all the glitz and glamour made her feel even worse inside because you'd think she had everything a person can ask for in life, yet she was so terribly lost and alone, depressed and having to play the role of Marilyn Monroe probably only emphasized her misery. That's why it was such a big shock to the public when she died because they had no idea what was really going on. Like that at times she wished that she was dead. She was also quoted to have said to Paula and Susan (somewhere in Susan's book): "If I didn't have my work, I could die." or something like "If it wasn't for the work, I could die right away." I couldn't find the exact quote but it's somewhere there as well as lots of other very disturbing quotes that I think give a strong impression on just how depressed she really was. If she was generally anything, she was generally miserable.

So, yeah, that's all I want to say about that thing. In my opinion it was most probably just an accident of taking too many pills but since Marilyn was troubled and had tried to kill herself before by taking an overdose, who knows, maybe she really wanted to escape and to end her life.

Whatever happened, she won't be forgotten. I just wish the general public could know about her real self. I sometimes feel people forget she was even a real person once. Well, Norma Jeane was (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/throb.gif) , Marilyn Monroe wasn't. Marilyn Monroe was and is a fantasy.

This post has been edited by Tiina: Dec 3 2010, 09:10 PM
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Margherita
post Jan 7 2011, 09:34 PM
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A really beautiful, wise and understanding writing on Marilyn, Tiina !
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TwinklingStar
post Jan 23 2011, 04:10 AM
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I believe that she was murdered. I'm stuck between the whole Greenson/Murray theory as well as the Kennedy theory. However, the words of Eunice Murray caught on tape of "why at my age must i still cover this up" seems to speak volumes to me. Personally, I think that its possible she involved with a setup with Greenson and wanted to come clean finally.

On a somewhat unrelated but ironic note, how strange would it be if Eunice Murray administered her enema and then in 2009 a Dr. murray administers the lethal overdose of a sleeping aid to Michael Jackson....weird!
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jinjoe
post Jan 23 2011, 12:44 PM
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she was murdered due to her involvement with the kennedy's & sam giancana gave the order to shut her up for good.

i dont believe the suicide theory for one bit, total bullshit, just like lee harvey oswald being the lone gunman.

time to take off the rose tinted glasses
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Shine84
post Apr 27 2011, 01:08 PM
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I agree with Nightwatcher and TwinklingStar. I believe she was murdered.
Eunice Murray, Robert Greenson, Peter Lawford....the Security who saw R. Kennedy landing with his helicopter at the Fox-studios one day before her death...why did Pat Newcomb dissapear in England?! Why did Murray wash these sheets in the middle of the night/early morning?!? Because she threw up? Oh come on!
She wanted to do a press conference on Monday, and "they" wanted to keep her quiet, maybe she freaked out and everything went out of control!?!
My opinion is, that they covered everything up. She had so many drugs/medication in her blood, that she must´ve been dead long before she swallowed ALL of them. I believe she was unconcious before they did an enema to her....
"Ask Bobby Kennedy".....

I wish I could write it in German here, because my English is not so good :-(
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MarilynIloveU
post Jul 28 2011, 08:33 PM
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I think she was murdered for sure. I believe that Greenson or Murray administered the lethal dose of Nembutal. I think Greenson was suspicious from the start, if only someone had got him away from her.
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sugarkane20
post Jul 28 2011, 09:40 PM
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Why would he want her dead?
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Kevin
post Jul 28 2011, 10:00 PM
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This is the only time anyone will ever hear me comment on this "murder". She made a mistake, she was human...I used to be an alcoholic so I know what its like, not knowing or remembering what I have done the previous day. I believe it was an accident and I believe it was only covered up to protect her...even though I never trusted Greenson or Murray as far as I could throw them. And as far as the Kennedy's are concerned, yes it is possible. It is also possible that aliens landed in LA and probed her to death. However even if the Kennedy's did do something this stupid, I am a firm believer in Karma and as both died within a 4 year period from each other...case solved and they both got what they deserved. If anyone "killed" her, it would have been Greenson and/or Murray since they were both in her will. They had the most to gain, even more than the Kennedy's.

Again, this is only my opinion, I would love to know the truth but as most of the people that were involved are either dead or only saying stuff to just get their 15 minutes in the sun. While I am thinking about it, why do people celebrate her death? I celebrate her birthday, not her death. I beleive in celebrating a persons life, not the day they died.

Anyway, you know I love you all, you are all my friends and I respect and understand all of your opinions and comments, regardless if they match mine or not. I am a fair person who believes in respecting the beliefs and opinions of others. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif)

Take care... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

This post has been edited by Kevin: Jul 28 2011, 10:01 PM
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MarilynIloveU
post Jul 29 2011, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE(sugarkane20 @ Jul 28 2011, 09:40 PM) *
Why would he want her dead?


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QUOTE(Kevin @ Jul 28 2011, 10:00 PM) *
If anyone "killed" her, it would have been Greenson and/or Murray since they were both in her will. They had the most to gain, even more than the Kennedy's.



Kevin if she accidentally killed herself (which is possible), then why didn't someone mention it years later? I mean when the murder theories started?

I don't believe Greenson or Murray cared about her, certainly not enough to cover up an accidental over dose. They were hiding something but they were gaining from it, probably financially.

Personally I think Greenson always planned to either murder her or blackmail her. I think that his plans were cut short by Kennedy, who paid him to kill her before he put his own plan in to full swing. But whatever happened, I just have this gut instinct that Greenson was up to no good from the start.
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Kevin
post Jul 29 2011, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE(MarilynIloveU @ Jul 29 2011, 01:06 PM) *
Kevin if she accidentally killed herself (which is possible), then why didn't someone mention it years later? I mean when the murder theories started?

I don't believe Greenson or Murray cared about her, certainly not enough to cover up an accidental over dose. They were hiding something but they were gaining from it, probably financially.

Personally I think Greenson always planned to either murder her or blackmail her. I think that his plans were cut short by Kennedy, who paid him to kill her before he put his own plan in to full swing. But whatever happened, I just have this gut instinct that Greenson was up to no good from the start.


Well, lets put it this way, when LAPD loses a dead body (or two, or three (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif) ) back in 1957, 1962 and 1979 and heck probably a few dozen more since the 70's, along with paperwork from as many non-celebrity deaths...they lose credibilty (IMHO-also this comes from a friend of mine, whom was a cop in LA for 30 years and since retired with honours) on anything they release to the press, and that the coroner's office, like in Vegas are completely inept at doing a decent job of filing. The Kennedy's might have been involved, again (if so) Karma is a b@#$h and they both found that out the hard way. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif) If they indeed had something to do with it. Ralph Greenson was a dirt bag...100%. I agree. I believe that 99% of the people in her 'inner circle' (except family) during the last 3 years of her life were gold-diggin' scum-bucket morons. Ha! (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif) lol

To make a long story short and pretty much make this my last post on this topic, unless somebody can prove either with documents, photos or a recording of somebody actually saying "she was killed, here's the proof, look!" or "I did it because Ralph Greenson/the Kennedy's threatened or paid me too".

This is why I like to keep away from topics like this. I would rather think of her life, accoplishments and her humanity.

I still in my heart, deep down, believe it was an accident. But again that is only my opinion and does not express the views and opinions of ES, other members, moderators and owners. I had to add that. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif)

Gee, I need to stop reading this stuff...its too depressing man. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/crybaby.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/crybaby.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/crybaby.gif)

This post has been edited by Kevin: Jul 30 2011, 12:16 AM
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jonas
post Jul 30 2011, 10:02 PM
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Kevin, I can see your point but ask yourself this? How many people have made money by going on documentaries and talk shows and hinting that Marilyn was killed. The Jeanne Carmens, Robert Slatzers, etc,etc...whatever! I confess I believe she was killed, others believe in suicide and what not... but what's it worth? It's splitting hairs! The debate could go on for eternity.
However, if this problem had been dealt with accordingly and dare I say it... "morally" at the time... then the death of the person all of us here admire wouldn't have made so many fake husbands,lovers and best friends rich from TV appearances! These people have made a mint-believe me- though most of them are dead now. And don't be surprised if soon some new book or documentary comes out dealing with the subject. And more people will be cashing in!
The death in itself may never be solved,but the behavior of the people surrounding Marilyn suggests there was a cover up of something. A cover up of murder or something else we may never know.But something exquisite definitely went on there. You have neighbors, police officers, a housekeeper, doctors and the silence of others insinuating at it.
Basically, when these people went public with these statements, they should have been interrogated further and ,if by chance, they were shooting the bull for their fifteen minutes of fame, then they should have been punished severely.
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Kevin
post Jul 30 2011, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE(jonas @ Jul 30 2011, 04:02 PM) *
Kevin, I can see your point but ask yourself this? How many people have made money by going on documentaries and talk shows and hinting that Marilyn was killed. The Jeanne Carmens, Robert Slatzers, etc,etc...whatever! I confess I believe she was killed, others believe in suicide and what not... but what's it worth? It's splitting hairs! The debate could go on for eternity.
However, if this problem had been dealt with accordingly and dare I say it... "morally" at the time... then the death of the person all of us here admire wouldn't have made so many fake husbands,lovers and best friends rich from TV appearances! These people have made a mint-believe me- though most of them are dead now. And don't be surprised if soon some new book or documentary comes out dealing with the subject. And more people will be cashing in!
The death in itself may never be solved,but the behavior of the people surrounding Marilyn suggests there was a cover up of something. A cover up of murder or something else we may never know.But something exquisite definitely went on there. You have neighbors, police officers, a housekeeper, doctors and the silence of others insinuating at it.
Basically, when these people went public with these statements, they should have been interrogated further and ,if by chance, they were shooting the bull for their fifteen minutes of fame, then they should have been punished severely.


Didn't I just say this Jonas? (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

There will always be a division of members when it comes to this topic, all I said was that the LAPD and most officials are indeed, brain-dead and lack paper work skills. Also this is MY opinion, shared by some and not by others (obviously such as yourself). However this is why I never broached this topic until a few days ago...because the majority feels otherwise. This is my belief, like it or not. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif) I have been a member for almost 8 years and so lately I have been reading topics and posting because 1. There isn't any work in Vegas. 2. I am too ill to work 3. My adoration for MM (which is why I joined to begin with) and 4. Because I missed this place and I missed my friends. Normally I leave topics such as this alone (for obvious reasons). (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Also know that I admire, respect and adore MM as much as anybody else here (maybe more, maybe less). Bottom line, If everybody felt and thought the same way...life would be boring. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

...'nough said.(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

This post has been edited by Kevin: Jul 30 2011, 11:30 PM
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MarilynFan#1
post Jun 24 2012, 06:20 PM
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I cannot believe that after all these years some ppl still believe she comitted suicide or that it was accidental! There is enough proof at this point that we all know is wasnt suicide or accidental!! We all know that believing anything that Mr. Peter Lawford said is silly. If you havent forgotten he was Jack and Bobby's little kiss ass, and would do most anything they wanted of him. And also don't forget he was married to Pat Kennedy and would do ANYTHING to protect the Kennedy name, because he was married to one. Dr. Greenson took his orders from Bobby that night I am quite sure. And listening to John Minor? How naieve can some people get? Minor and Greenson were close, they were really good friends and also associates. Minor would do almost anything to protect his friends reputation and the truth from getting out to the public because he was told to do so, plus he had to to protect his own career and reputation as well. Murray has changed her story so much we all know shes covering for someone or someone's. And years later admitted that Bobby was at Marilyns. The investigation into Marilyn's death? Yea what investigation? There was no real investigation!! The autopsy was doctored, Evidence removed and files replaced with rewritten files and we all know this is true. The file on Marilyn is so tiny you cant even call it a file. Dr. Greenson openly admitted that there were things he couldnt tell ppl about Marilyns death, and that he was in a very rough position. And you know what he said? Talk To Bobby Kennedy. Bobby was involved 100%. And im sure that Jack must of new of what was going on as well. And what of her phone records? They disappeared the morning of her death. Sound odd to people? Well it should. Everything was doctored and covered up to hide any Kennedy involvement. And who has the power to keep a case closed and underwraps all these years? Even today? The mafia sure wouldnt, and neither would a simple doctor. And her studio? Come on give me a break, they couldnt do that either. It leaves only 1 suspect. The Kennedy's and there connections Period. Im sorry to burst peoples bubbles but Marilyn did NOT commit suicide and her death was NOT accidental either. There maybe be some ppl out there who still refuse to see the light and truth of Marilyn's demise. And thats there own opinion, but opinion is opinion and fact is fact. She was murdered and that is a fact. Marilyn deserves that Truth be told and the truth of her death revealed once and for all. She deserves justice (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/smile1.gif)
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mmmanda
post Feb 11 2013, 11:51 PM
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I actually don't know what to believe... I mean, it's obvious her state of mind wasn't too well, so it IS possible she intentionally ended her own life. She was, by no means, mentally ill, but she did have a traumatic childhood and exhibited many signs and symptoms of borderline personality disorder. On the other hand, she was taking so many pharmaceuticals... you know how that usually turns out, especially back then.

Then, of course, there's always the Illuminati to blame it on... They promise fame and fortune and then kill you off when they see fit. But, I won't get into that (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif)

For now, I'll just assume her death was an accident (caused by pharmaceuticals) until more evidence is released.
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Margherita
post Feb 13 2013, 12:55 PM
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Are there still people alive who might know ?

This post has been edited by Margherita: Feb 14 2013, 09:47 PM
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Eva
post May 20 2013, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE(Margherita @ Feb 13 2013, 12:55 PM) *
Are there still people alive who might know ?


The only important witness that is still alive today and who has any credibility is Pat Newcomb, although i do sometimes wonder if she will ever set the story straight about Marilyn's last day alive.

When i first read a book about Marilyn's life and what she had achieved throughout her career i would never thought for a minute that this woman would ever kill herself, but over the year's i've thought more and more about her mother's mental disturbances stemming from her family background and not having a proper mother and father to bring her up, also all the terrible things Norma Jeane was most likely subjected to as a young child in those care homes i would now say ''yes she would of been capable of committing suicide, but if you look back on how she was in the last years of her life you can see the downward spiral with what was happening around her the drug addiction the insomnia, her failed relationships and then being fired from her last movie, even reports from Greenson's own children that Marilyn was seriously depressed complaining about her age and how everyone around her just wanted to use her!!!

And what about her therapist Dr Greenson and Mrs Murray, i never really understood why Marilyn was constantly dependent on Greenson even though it looked like he was trying to gain control over his client, i also don't believe that Dr Greenson had hit Marilyn after being called back early from his trip i think she actually slipped in the shower as she was drugged up on her meds? if he had hurt Marilyn then i think Pat would of known about the incident and would of reported him, so i don't think he was harming her or trying to gain control over her in that way.

Could it of been an accidental OD the amount of drugs was too large for it to have been an accident had she taken the pills over an amount of time, a few pills at a time, she would have passed out long before she could finish them all so for me accidental overdose in this case doesn't seem possible?

Why i don't go by the conspiracy theories like being murdered by the Kennedy's, the needle injections and enema's etc, i just don't think that could of happened to such a famous star, also how would the Kennedy's of lived with the guilt of killing such a lovely actress that never really hurt anyone when she was alive, i do feel the day before Marilyn had died it was a premeditated suicide the way she went about getting the drugs before she had used them all?

This post has been edited by Eva: Sep 22 2014, 02:52 PM
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