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> Her Doctor´s Fault?
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ilikeithot
post Jul 5 2004, 02:38 AM
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I don´t have much knowledge about Marilyn´s death regarding facts and evidence and such. I have a theory that maybe her doctor´s negligence killed her. I don´t know if anyone could help me with information about this but I remember i read somewhere that she had more than 1 doctor (more than Dr. Greenson) and that they both prescribed her a lot of pills.

Perhaps this availability of pills and maybe the prescription of things that didn´t mix well gave Marilyn the overdose that killed her against her knowledge.

I do believe that Dr. Greenson for sure knows what happened that night, and I think he may be involved. He didn´t do it on purpose, I´m sure but perhaps he is to blame.

Does anyone agree, disagree? I may be completely off on this...... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/eyebrow.gif)

This post has been edited by ilikeithot: Jul 5 2004, 02:39 AM
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suusmarie
post Jul 6 2004, 01:41 AM
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Marilyn had several doctors indeed and they all gave here drugs without the knowlegde of the other (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/angry.gif) , they all kicked on having the very famous Marilyn as their patient and tried to be involved as must in her life as they could. Marilyn by the way is and was not the only one falling in the trap of medical addictment and doctorcontrole, eversince there have been doctors there has been mispractise (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/mf_tongue.gif) !
I believe a lot of the Spoto theory and think indeed Greenson knew what went on, he was a very sick person with a unhealhy obsession for Marilyn and when she finally turned him away, he could not handle it and pushed her (accidently or knowingly) over the egde in the only manner he was familiar with, Marilyn´s extended drughabit... (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)
But we will probably never know for sure what happened that night...

(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/hug.gif) Suusmarie
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MM_Yvonne
post Jul 6 2004, 11:13 AM
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no we probally never will...wish we did though
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angelxwingz
post Jul 14 2004, 10:42 PM
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(IMG:http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/celebrity/marilyn_monroe/6-2-Dr-Ralph-Greenson.jpg)

he scares me. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/scared.gif)

Even if he had nothing to do with it, which Im sure he did.
Well All I know about Greenson Is that he definatly knew what happened that night.
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Val
post Jul 14 2004, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE(angelxwingz @ Jul 14 2004, 11:42 PM)



He does look freaking scary (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

ps: I just noticed the hotlinking... Please do not hotlink. It costs money to webmaster you're hotlinking from. See Boards rules and guidelines at the top of the page. Thanks.

This post has been edited by Val: Jul 15 2004, 06:57 PM
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Fav
post Aug 28 2004, 08:34 PM
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How does that saying go again? 'You can't always judge a book by its cover.'
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Stacy
post Oct 5 2004, 08:22 PM
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I agree with Suusmarie...I think between Dr. Greenson, Dr. Engleberg and the infamous Mrs. Murray...they have a "lot of 'splaining to do."

They had motive, means and opportunity to try to keep Marilyn under their control. I think they miscalculated and ended up killing her by mistake. Then they tried to cover their tracks. This accounts for Mrs. Murray washing Marilyn's bedding when the police arrived, and I personally think they cleaned up the crime scene and posed the body.
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sabine
post Oct 25 2004, 11:46 PM
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It's easy to point the finger after the fact....Marilyn had been abusing pills and alcohol long before the last round of doctors came along. She snuck behind their backs to use them to get more pills for herself.
I know this is hard but the doctors were not forcing marilyn to take those drugs.....it was Marilyn that had the last choice in it all. She took those drugs herself. If greenson or engelberg hadn't given them to her she would have gone elsewhere. Absolutely.

sabine
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sabine
post Oct 25 2004, 11:49 PM
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I really don't get this thing about Mrs. Murray....the woman's duties included housekeeping,shopping, driving marilyn around, answerinf the phone, doing the laundry and such.
I don't rcall "babysitting" among them....again, are we forever trying to find somebody to be held responsible for Marilyn's death other than Marilyn herself?
The housekeeper couldn't have kept Marilyn from taking drugs or killing herself no more than any of Marilyn's friends or husbands....so why blame the old lady for stuff? I don't get it.

sabine
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sabine
post Oct 25 2004, 11:51 PM
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Read Arthur Millers' timebends"...in it he talks about Marilyn's druguse...it was severe during "let's make love" and especially during "the misfits"...and this had nothing to do with any particular doctor. Marilyn was the addict. They can not be hlped if they don't want to be helped. Bottomline.
No doctor was forcefeeding Marilyn any of these drugs...she had been abusing pills and alcohol for years and years before Greenson or Engelberg came around....

sabine
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Amber Nichols
post Oct 26 2004, 04:00 PM
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I feel that the Dr's are responsible 4 their patients and in this case they
knew( as many star's did us several Dr.'s to get pills)that Marilyn bounced back and forth from one Dr. to another to obtain medication that she was addicted to. I have suspected the Dr. Greenson executed
to much control over Marilyn's life. The fact that he allowed a patient
into his home on a daily basis( i.e. Marilyn)is crossing boundries and makes me feel he had self serving motives, as did the Strausbergs. He does know alot more than he is telling and I hope one day that it does surface. The truth does~No no one forced Marilyn to pop pills, but they
did feed them to her so to speak.........
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mels
post Oct 26 2004, 06:46 PM
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You know Amber, while I think you are right when you say that Greenson went too far when letting Marilyn into his house, and maybe trying to get too much control over her, I also disagree on another part.
Marilyn was an addict, whether the Doctors had been more carefull or not, the same things would have happened. We do know that Greenson significantly tried to reduce the amount of drugs Marilyn was taking in her last weeks, and I do believe he wanted to help her but didn't know how to handle her.
Hadn't it been Greenson and Engleberg, someone else would have provided her with the pills, nothing stops an addict.

Also, they were not the ones who made her start these addictions, to their credit (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/wink3.gif)

Yes, Doctors are responsible for their patients, but the patients are responsible of themselves. If they don't believe in themselves and don't put any effort in their health, even the BEST doctor will be powerless. Let's also keep in mind that back in the early 60s the knowledge of illnesses such as depression or borderline attitude, schizophreny etc... wans't as good as today's and that the treatments were far from what they are today... I think that in the case we are talking about, things are much more complicated than it's the doctors' fault, or it's Marilyn's fault. There was, IMO a bad conjunction : Marilyn, the doctors, the era she lived in etc... made things the end the way they did.

I, personnally can't blame the doctors as the only responsible... just like blame just Marilyn...
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Amber Nichols
post Oct 26 2004, 09:24 PM
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Well Mels, we could certainly play a round of tenis with this,could we not?? I agree that an addict that does not want to quit will get it one way or another,thats given....He may very well have TRIED to re-duce
the amount,but their we go agian Marilyn had other providers. He was aware of this, I'm sure...So him reducing his perscription is kind of piontless with this knowledge. I've read that stars were kept working
threw their Dr.'s. They gave them pills to pep, pills to sleep. After all stars
have to keep working....The almighty dollar does not care who is an addict. I'm sure Greenson was aware of this too. I wonder if he had pressure from the studio to help keep her working?? Mels :I think the responsiblity of her medication and mental well being is his responsiblity, thats his job description. They are paid well because it does come with a human or humane responsibilty.. I still stand firm on my view of the Greensons
and the Strausbergs. You say that "he could not handle her" addicts
can't be handle or portioned out pills,I'm sure a man with his education
and training knew this as well. Responsibility goes hand in hand-yes.
The Doctors are there because they are suspose to know better. You and I don't have the degrees to handle an indepth psychological evaluation of Marilyn's mental state. Dr. Greenson did ,it was strange how he was the first one called,not the police?? Was that arranged?? Lots of questions? I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall that day. Thats an indepth topic in it's self.
(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/harhar1.gif) What do you think of that Mels??!!! LOL~Amber

This post has been edited by Amber Nichols: Oct 26 2004, 09:28 PM
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Amber Nichols
post Oct 27 2004, 11:11 PM
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What do you make of this document on Dr. Engelberg's injection charges??
Does anyone have more info?? Also a pharmacy invoice.. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Attached File(s)
Attached File Engelberg_injections3.JPG ( 154.29K )Number of downloads: 88
Attached File Pharmacy_invoice2.JPG ( 194.17K )Number of downloads: 84
 
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BeyondCamelot
post Oct 28 2004, 05:51 PM
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As a former addict myself, Marilyn would have definitely gone to other sources to get them even if her doctors cut her off cold turkey. It's not easy to quit, even when you WANT to. There's times even rehab can't help. It takes dedication like nothing else I've ever done.
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Amber Nichols
post Oct 28 2004, 07:05 PM
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This has nothing to do with Marilyn's Dr.'s, but I can relate to you Kat
in the fact that my brother is going threw beating addiction now. I feel
helpless in the fact that I can't help him, he has to do it himself. I wish
you well in whatever journey life may give you. The big difference is
he was not getting his fix from the Dr.'s. You don't cure the problem
by suppling it. lol~Amber

This post has been edited by Amber Nichols: Oct 28 2004, 07:07 PM
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BeyondCamelot
post Oct 29 2004, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE(Amber Nichols @ Oct 28 2004, 12:05 PM)
This has nothing to do with Marilyn's Dr.'s, but I can relate to you Kat
in the fact that my brother is going threw beating addiction now.  I feel
helpless in the fact that I can't help him, he has to do it himself.  I wish
you well in whatever journey life may give you.  The big difference is
he was not getting his fix from the Dr.'s.  You don't cure the problem
by suppling it.                                        lol~Amber
[snapback]64838[/snapback]



I wasn't getting my fix from my doctors either. I wish you two luck, though - and you've got support from me anytime. :]
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Amber Nichols
post Oct 31 2004, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE(BeyondCamelot @ Oct 29 2004, 03:06 PM)
QUOTE(Amber Nichols @ Oct 28 2004, 12:05 PM)
This has nothing to do with Marilyn's Dr.'s, but I can relate to you Kat
in the fact that my brother is going threw beating addiction now.  I feel
helpless in the fact that I can't help him, he has to do it himself.  I wish
you well in whatever journey life may give you.   The big difference is
he was not getting his fix from the Dr.'s.  You don't cure the problem
by suppling it.                                        lol~Amber
[snapback]64838[/snapback]



I wasn't getting my fix from my doctors either. I wish you two luck, though - and you've got support from me anytime. :]
[snapback]64870[/snapback]


(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/console.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/hug.gif)
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