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> Abortions...
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roseloomis
post Jun 21 2011, 04:55 PM
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im not questioning the fact just the quantity...
i've read she had 12 abortions by age 29
just curious if the numbers were correct or if you guys heard anything different
thanks!
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roseloomis
post Jun 21 2011, 10:17 PM
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i read that on another monroe site and it was saying that she told someone and blah blah blah.
im sure she had abortions but i dont think that many especially since back then they were illegal and

she would have had to gone to a "backalley" clinic. just wondered if younz heard all that crap too lol
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meganmarilyn
post Jun 21 2011, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(roseloomis @ Jun 21 2011, 08:55 AM) *
im not questioning the fact just the quantity...
i've read she had 12 abortions by age 29
just curious if the numbers were correct or if you guys heard anything different
thanks!



Marilyn wanted a baby more than life itself. Wanted someone to love more than life itself. Abortion, just don't see it. She would have told someone (credible). Speculation is all it is.

This post has been edited by meganmarilyn: Jun 21 2011, 10:24 PM
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Louise
post Jun 22 2011, 08:46 AM
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I agree that it all sounds like speculation and gossip. The only validated termination I've read of is when her ectopic pregnancy had to be aborted (there's no choice about this.) She was devastated. I gather she had her tubes tied (or something similar) in her early career to avoid pregnancy, and then had it rectified when she was married.
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Tara
post Jun 22 2011, 12:19 PM
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There is no proof of any abortion, though of course with it being illegal at the time, there wouldn't be. The 'dozen abortions' rumour appeared in Norman Mailer's book, among others, and I think it's just speculation. I've never heard of any confirmation from a first-hand source.

I'm not dismissing the possibility, though. Marilyn might have had one or two terminations early on, but as there is no hard evidence, I won't accept it on hearsay. I agree that in the days of backstreet abortions, she wouldn't have survived for long so the multiple abortions rumour seems unlikely.

I think people assume she'd had a lot of abortions because of her miscarriages later on, but that could have been caused by her severe, chronic endometriosis. It is difficult for women with this condition to carry a child to term even today - it would have been near impossible back then.
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Alanma
post Jun 22 2011, 04:12 PM
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Did not the autopsy report on Marilyn find that her cervix was 'normal', and showed no 'abnormalities' ?

This, surely, would not have been the case had Marilyn undergone even one abortion, especially to 1940s/50s standards.

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Tara
post Jun 23 2011, 01:44 PM
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Good point Alan.
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MarilynIloveU
post Feb 7 2012, 01:04 PM
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I'm no expert on abortion but in the twenties Gloria Swanson was fed poison by Wallace Beery (her then husband) so she'd lose her baby. So to my mind the fact MM had no abortion scars proves nothing, she could have aborted another way. Nearly every actress had abortions back then.
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meganmarilyn
post Feb 7 2012, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(MarilynIloveU @ Feb 7 2012, 04:04 AM) *
I'm no expert on abortion but in the twenties Gloria Swanson was fed poison by Wallace Beery (her then husband) so she'd lose her baby. So to my mind the fact MM had no abortion scars proves nothing, she could have aborted another way. Nearly every actress had abortions back then.



Nearly every actress had abortions back then? Again, speculation.

This post has been edited by meganmarilyn: Feb 7 2012, 02:54 PM
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MarilynIloveU
post Feb 8 2012, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE(meganmarilyn @ Feb 7 2012, 12:29 PM) *
Nearly every actress had abortions back then? Again, speculation.


It's true, the majority did. Look at all the affairs that were taking place, how could they not have gotten pregnant? Some admitted it later in life too, like Bette Davis, Jane Russell, Joan Collins, Mamie Van Doren, and Diana Dors; Maria River confirmed Marlene had at least one. Abortion was common in Hollywood, it's a fact not speculation. I love Marilyn and I do NOT believe the 12 abortions rumour but I do think that most likely she had at least one early on in her career, she had a fair few lovers at that time.
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meganmarilyn
post Feb 9 2012, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE(MarilynIloveU @ Feb 8 2012, 10:44 AM) *
It's true, the majority did. Look at all the affairs that were taking place, how could they not have gotten pregnant? Some admitted it later in life too, like Bette Davis, Jane Russell, Joan Collins, Mamie Van Doren, and Diana Dors; Maria River confirmed Marlene had at least one. Abortion was common in Hollywood, it's a fact not speculation. I love Marilyn and I do NOT believe the 12 abortions rumour but I do think that most likely she had at least one early on in her career, she had a fair few lovers at that time.



Speculation, which is your opinion. Proof please. Show us medical records.

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Joan Newman
post Feb 9 2012, 06:15 AM
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QUOTE(Tara @ Jun 22 2011, 11:19 AM) *
There is no proof of any abortion, though of course with it being illegal at the time, there wouldn't be. The 'dozen abortions' rumour appeared in Norman Mailer's book, among others, and I think it's just speculation. I've never heard of any confirmation from a first-hand source.

I'm not dismissing the possibility, though. Marilyn might have had one or two terminations early on, but as there is no hard evidence, I won't accept it on hearsay. I agree that in the days of backstreet abortions, she wouldn't have survived for long so the multiple abortions rumour seems unlikely.

I think people assume she'd had a lot of abortions because of her miscarriages later on, but that could have been caused by her severe, chronic endometriosis. It is difficult for women with this condition to carry a child to term even today - it would have been near impossible back then.



What possible proof could there be? Like Tara said, abortions being illegal, so no doctor would document it. Maybe if someone who was with Marilyn at the time of the abortion, etc.. But that too, would be here say. So, we can't really know for sure. She might have been one of the lucky women who had sex and never get pregnant, or maybe she miscarried like many woman have. Or maybe she being as smart about many things like she was, her ambition with her career, or getting a specific man when she wanted to, etc. She was a genius with the camera and the lights and her make up technique, etc. Maybe she learned early on how to protect her self for sex. Could be? Our girl was smart as a whip when she had to be. You know, men have spoken about having made love to her, Di Dienes, right? Did they mention Marilyn talking about being on the pill, etc.? Why would they, right? Men rarely worry about that.
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Margherita
post Feb 9 2012, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE(Nettie @ Feb 9 2012, 07:15 AM) *
You know, men have spoken about having made love to her, Di Dienes, right? Did they mention Marilyn talking about being on the pill, etc.? Why would they, right? Men rarely worry about that.


The truth may also be like this:



So what if it was quite contrary ? That Marilyn DID want to get pregnant but never did ? And she was very disappointed and later on in her life fancied that she had had a lot of abortions so that people would think that she's "normal"? She at least once told at a party that she had had a child, which of course wasn't true.
Marilyn also had endometriosis, that was proved by docs and she had very painful periods because of the case ( I have it too, it's quite common).

What comes to deDienes and Marilyn eating pills - I think there weren't that kind of pills in the late -40s , early - 50s?
In some book it mentioned that actually Marilyn was eating at a certain period some kind of hormonal pills, for her menstrual pain, so those might have affected, too, way or another.

I'm almost 120 % sure she never went through a large number of abortions - based on the above mentioned; and I think she would have been psychologically unable to keep all them in secrecy; she also would have developed high fevers and other symptoms and there would have been accounts of her being ill for weeks.
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zeldazonk61
post Feb 29 2012, 11:25 PM
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None of us will know whether she did or did not, but I lean more towards no. It would be some form of a miracle for anyone to survive say 2 abortions back then let alone 12, the amount Norman Mailer suggests she had. One of the reasons why abortion is legal now is that so many women died or suffered as a result of the abortion methods back then. If Marilyn did have 12, she would have been either severely damaged as a result and there would be evidence as such or she would have died from 12. There is no way you could survive 12 abortions in those times...the methods were pretty awful.
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Alanma
post Mar 2 2012, 07:28 PM
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The autopsy report on Marilyn stated that her uterus was normal.

Out of curiosity I asked my own family doctor about it, and he said that any abortion would leave unmistakeable traces; especially considering the methods used in the 1950s.
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Paju
post Mar 3 2012, 08:08 AM
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I too tend to believe that Marilyn never had an abortion, and this is because of what Alan said: her uterus was normal. Also if I'm right, I think her gynecologist agreed that she never had an abortion.
It's true that abortion was a common secret at that time, but remember: Marilyn had trouble becoming pregnant because of her endometriosis. Apparently she never got pregnant with Jim Dougherty or Joe DiMaggio, and the contraceptive methods back then weren't as developed as today.
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