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> Marilyn: The Last Sessions
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magda24
post Nov 30 2009, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE(Ultraviolet @ Nov 29 2009, 09:34 PM) *
It irritated me that when the narrator spoke for instance of incidents happening in early sixties the film clicks mostly showed her from early -50's! So as she would have looked allways the same, while her outlooks changed enourmously through the years...


This was a thing that annoyed me the most! I know it's not a big deal, there were bigger mistakes in there, but I thought it was totally lazy on their part. Oh, Arlene Hunter footage was also a surprise- I though NO ONE thinks it is Marilyn anymore.
I must admit I did turn off the tv, some 15 minutes before the end. It was very irritating to watch for me.
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Paju
post Nov 30 2009, 11:47 AM
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Oh I forgot about that Arline Hunter footage. Terrible. I guess my mind just wanted to remove that from the documentary!
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Margherita
post Dec 1 2009, 12:48 PM
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Well, I watched the doc again yesterday at my mother's place, she had also recorded it - I must admit that this time it seemed quite better, maybe because 2 days ago I was very tired and now felt better...

Besides the above mentioned good and bad things, I must say that Marilyn looked so shining and light and luminous in many footages, my mother also noticed it.

As a visual experience it was not impossible; poetic and good New York-scenes. Good that the standard "talking heads" were left out this time.

------

But few irritations more (I might be wrong though):

Towards the end of the doc, the narrator told that deDienes, in -62, wanted to take again pictures of MM, and this time they would be taken in some back alleys, night time.
And then there were these pictures of MM that (I think) deDienes took of Marilyn in 50 or 51! They were taken about the time when her big career was starting, she had had her hair cut short and all, and even the text in deDienes' "Marilyn Mon Amour" says of these photos: (about something like this) "She looks sad and sinister in these photos, was it a foreseeing what was to become in her life?"
And these photos are shown to the viewers as having been taken in -62; so sloppy work....

-------

The doc also contained a lot of acted scenes of "Marilyn talking with Greenson"; they showed her legs and hands mostly. Well, the shoes that "Marilyn" in them was wearing were not at all early sixties style but the kind that were in shops at 2006 when the doc was done ! (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) And in most parts "MM" was either varnishing her nails or having bright red nail laquer, and in reality she didn't use bright red laqcuer that much outside filming or photosessions.
Small details these, too - but then, these documents are viewed by people who really don't know much about the subject.

Would it be too difficult or expensive to do them carefully?
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Shirley
post Dec 15 2009, 12:13 PM
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Does anyone know where it can be downloaded?
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Fav
post Nov 30 2010, 07:36 PM
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I just finished watching this documentary on UK satellite tv. I weirdly enjoyed it, it got in my head. It made Marilyn real. Yes there were huge mistakes (like the Apple Knockers Coke footage) but the documentary really sucked you in. Gloomy yes, but some interesting insight and different ways of looking at things. The way they looked at her as two people was interesting. They used some less well known footage which was refreshing. Wish they'd allowed us to listen to Marilyn talking on the background tapes. I'm not sure if I have actually heard some of the interviews that were running. Don't think I would watch it again but if you come across it in the schedules, it's worth a look.
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TwinklingStar
post Feb 7 2011, 07:44 AM
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When I watched this, I was under the impression that Marilyn's voice was the voice heard on the tapes. Any truth? Or was it a "sound alike"?

I'm not sure how I felt about them talking about Marilyn's numerous liasons. Like she was a common whore.
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Margherita
post Feb 10 2011, 08:42 PM
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I think if someone has a lot of liaisons, it doesn't make the person worse or better. If Marilyn had, so what ? In that I understand her, she was a bohemian, she lived exactly the way she wanted (as I have, too, and it ain't allways easy, but....)

She may have had more men than she could remember but certainly was not a common whore but a very special genius.

(Not that there's anything wrong with common whores, either, IMO)
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TwinklingStar
post Feb 11 2011, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE(Ultraviolet @ Feb 10 2011, 02:42 PM) *
I think if someone has a lot of liaisons, it doesn't make the person worse or better. If Marilyn had, so what ? In that I understand her, she was a bohemian, she lived exactly the way she wanted (as I have, too, and it ain't allways easy, but....)

She may have had more men than she could remember but certainly was not a common whore but a very special genius.

(Not that there's anything wrong with common whores, either, IMO)



Right, but the way they made it sound it was quite wreckless. Sometimes anonymous, personally I believe Marilyn had more dignity than that. I suppose I see it as a morality thing.
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Alanma
post Mar 8 2011, 08:57 PM
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There is to be an interesting programme on UK Freeview Channel 14, More4, at 10pm Saturday 15th March.

To quote the blurb in the programme guide -

"Two tragic icons of post-war America come under scrutiny in two separate documentaries.

The first focuses on Marilyn Monroe's relationship with her Freudian psychanalyst Ralph Greenson, in the last dark days prior to her death in 1962.

The second reports, through a series of photographs, on the funeral of Bobby Kennedy in June 1968 as he was laid to rest next to his brother Jack".
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lorileime
post Mar 8 2011, 09:53 PM
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Can it be streamed online? How do we find out? Sounds interesting, would love to hear it.
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Alanma
post Mar 8 2011, 09:57 PM
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'Streaming on line' is a bit technical for me, but here is a link to the Channel, if you can work something out from that !

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/marilyn-the-last-sessions

'Youtube' maybe?
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Tara
post Mar 8 2011, 11:17 PM
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Hope you don't mind Alan but I've merged this with an older thread. Not seen this one so I'll be watching out for it, thanks for letting us know.

Tony, I suspect it will be made on available 4-OD (online) after the terrestrial screening, but I don't know if that works outside the UK.

Interestingly - or, confusingly - a novel of the same title by Michel Schneider is being published in the UK this August. I believe it is connected to this documentary. It was published in Europe about 4 years ago.

A lot of blurring fact and fiction, it seems to me...

http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/?showtopic=16412
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Tara
post Mar 15 2011, 11:50 AM
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Don't forget to watch tonight, UK members - More4, at 10.
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lilmissbubbles
post Mar 15 2011, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE(Eva @ Nov 28 2009, 08:07 PM) *
Sounds great Paju'' i would love to be there with you. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/throb.gif)

Will this Documentary be shown in the uk.


This documentary is being shown in the uk on more4 at ten tonight! I will watching it then or taping it and watching it tomorrow. Intrigued to see how I feel about it, although I get an inkling I may feel much the same as the above comments!
ps. this comment took me fifteen minutes to write having problems with a constant pop up that won't go away telling me I'm low on ink when I don't even want to print!)
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CLG
post Mar 16 2011, 01:12 AM
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(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif) Hmmm.....well, I just watched this tonight and I'm 98% sure that those "recordings" of Monroe you can hear in the background are not from her Greenson sessions but from her interview with George Belmont in 1960. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
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dazzledent
post Mar 16 2011, 11:05 AM
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Yeah, this was a terrible documentary. A casual viewer would assume the recordings were from the sessions with Greenson.

There was an authoritative voice-over throughout - keen to portray Marilyn as a constantly depressive, tragic figure (you would think she had no happy times and no friends!). Miner's notes weren't questioned.

It showed an early nude film claiming it was Marilyn's earliest appearance on film. It didn't look like her and was then followed by film of her on the beach as a teenager.

She was portrayed as constantly picking up men. There was no mention that she formed her own corporation and hired Olivier, but it did suggest that he looked down on her.

It focussed on her miscarriages and said Arthur saved her from a suicide attempt. It said she spent the night with Kennedy after singing Happy Birthday to him.

It showed some photos from Dienes with MM posing in the car headlights and suggested these were taken late in her life - yet her hair wasn't long enough for these to have been taken then.

It talked of her funeral and gave the impression she had no family - no mention of Berniece.

Greenson was (rightly) portrayed as overstepping the boundaries of his profession and yet I don't recall any mention of Eunice Murray and her connection with him.

Footage from her real life was interspersed with movie footage and it would have been possible to confuse the 2 if unfamilar with her films. Most of the footage was familiar and yet there is lesser known stuff that could have been shown.

There were some brief clips from behind the scenes, filming on the Misfits that looked unfamiliar. There are cameras in shot, she is seen feeding the dog. MM was also shown giving an interview on the set but unfortunately there was no sound to accompany this.

These were the things which stood out for me after one viewing. I wouldn't be too sorry if you missed it.
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CLG
post Mar 16 2011, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE(dazzledent @ Mar 16 2011, 10:05 AM) *
She was portrayed as constantly picking up men. There was no mention that she formed her own corporation and hired Olivier, but it did suggest that he looked down on her.

It showed some photos from Dienes with MM posing in the car headlights and suggested these were taken late in her life - yet her hair wasn't long enough for these to have been taken then.


Was it me or did it mention something along the lines that Monroe used to pick-up random men of the street and have trysts with them in back alleys?

Yes, those pictures towards the end with the headlights that were said to be from 1962, were infact from 1952. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/frusty.gif)
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Alanma
post Mar 16 2011, 05:51 PM
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What a mess this was.

That porn-movie is a wellknown hoax, featuring Arlene Hunter.
It started at that gutter-level and was all downhill from there.
.
The messy script of LML was put down to Marilyn, whereas the problem was caused by Miller's constant interference.

Olivier's telling Marilyn to 'be sexy' was stated to be prior to the Waldorf-Astoria announcement of their TPATSG venture. In fact, it was blurted out by Olivier, on set, on the first day of shooting at Pinewood, a year or so later, and was largely the cause of the split between them.

They could not even get her address right. 'No4, Helena Drive' indeed.

No mention, either, that her housekeeper was a pyschiatric nurse appointed by Greenson.

The Sam Shaw pictures of Marilyn on the subway were presented as evidence that Marilyn lead a 'normal' life in New York.
In fact, those pictures were a pose, and taken in one day. Marilyn did not dare travel on the Subway for obvious reasons.

Marilyn is known, known not thought, not to have seen JFK privately after that Birthday performance. She went on, with friends, to Haspiel's apartment nearby.

No attempt was made to explain that Marilyn was dependent on prescription drugs for serious internal problems, as she did not want the necessary surgery in case it left her unable to have a child. Her gaunt appearance on SGTG was after serious surgery, when Marilyn had more-or-less gone 'cold turkey'.
No mention. either, of Marilyn being presented to H.M. the Queen, an immensely important moment to Marilyn.

Was there, in fact, anything at all of truth spoken in the whole programme ?
The criminals who wrote the script appear to have gone out of their way to revive every dirty story ever thrown at poor Marilyn.

The whole sorry farrago was made worse by the narrator, some Equity hack or other on valium, using the sort of unctuously false tones of sympathy associated with dodgy timeshare salesmen.

I have not checked yet, but agree with CLG that the alleged Greenson tapes are actually extracts from the unedited Belmont interview.

I have a link to that recording.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6XAMVCZ6
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timetravelangel
post Mar 16 2011, 07:30 PM
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Alanma, I agree 100% with everything you wrote about this documentary. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif) The inclusion of the pornographic movie is a travesty. All of the voice recordings are taken either from the 1960 Belmont interview or dialogue from her movies. I am glad More4 is not streaming this documentary on-demand because it contains so many errors and insults. The only redeemings feature is the candid footage, movie clips and photographs. No attempt was made to show what a witty, clever, creative and hard-working human being Marilyn Monroe was. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif)

This post has been edited by timetravelangel: Mar 16 2011, 07:31 PM
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Tara
post May 16 2011, 08:39 PM
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My review:

http://tarahanks.com/2011/05/16/documentar...-last-sessions/

Marilyn: The Last Sessions is a documentary made by Patrick Jeudy in 2008, based on a 2006 novel by Michel Schneider. The author was inspired by a 2005 article in the Los Angeles Times, containing a transcript (from memory) by John Miner, a detective involved in the original investigation into Monroe’s death, of tapes that he claimed were made for her psychiatrist, Dr Ralph Greenson, shortly before she died in 1962.

The tapes have never been found, but the publication of Miner’s transcripts proved controversial, which reflected the continuing public interest in Marilyn. Some experts on Monroe’s life pointed to factual anomalies in the text, outlined by Melinda Mason in her response, ‘Songs Marilyn Never Sang’.

While Miner’s transcript was a catalyst for Schneider, the material in his novel – and this documentary – are largely unrelated. Schneider has re-imagined the relationship between Monroe and Greenson over the last two years of her life.

In the documentary, Schneider’s text provides a voiced narrative to a 90-minute montage of newsreel and home movies, film scenes and footage of the cities where Marilyn lived. Visually, it is impressive. Scenes from Don’t Bother to Knock are used to illustrate how Marilyn’s character, the disturbed Nell, resembled her own mother, Gladys. And the death scene from Niagara is used to evoke the shadowy rumours about how Monroe’s life ended.

A recorded interview that Marilyn gave to George Belmont for Marie-Claire in 1960 is also played. However its source is never overtly stated, leaving the audience to assume that these are the private tapes allegedly made for Greenson.

A stag film, The Apple-Knockers and the Coke, is included here, but the girl featured is not Monroe. As early as 1970, New York cinemas were marketing the clip as starring MM, but her friend, James Haspiel, has established that the actress was, in fact, Arline Hunter: a former Playboy model who had gained some notoriety for imitating Monroe’s look.

Thorough research would suggest that no blue movie footage attributed to Marilyn has yet been proved genuine, but this does not fit the dramatic agenda of The Last Sessions. It is also stated that in the final months of her life, Monroe had been caught having sex in public by police. Perhaps this is another case of ‘artistic license’, as I have never heard of such an incident.

The heady eroticism that Marilyn projected in her films and photo shoots was an artful illusion, and in reality she was not nearly as promiscuous as Schneider and Jeudy have implied. Furthermore, by emphasising her personal problems and tragic experiences so strongly, the film-makers have done Monroe a disservice. Her determination and quick wit are nowhere to be found in this two-dimensional portrait.

Whatever Marilyn’s inner thoughts may have been, we can only speculate. This makes an intriguing premise for a novel, and I look forward to reading Schneider’s book when it is finally published in English this August. But this approach works less well in the documentary form, and the blurring between fact and fiction ultimately disappoints.
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