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> Where Was Arthur Miller ?
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mel76
post Aug 15 2006, 06:53 PM
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pourquoi arthur miller n'a pas assisté à l'enterrement de Marilyn?
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Paju
post Aug 15 2006, 07:04 PM
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I think the question was why didn't Arthur Miller help with Marilyn's funeral arrangements (am I right)?
Please try to write in English, or if you feel you must write in French please add an English translation. Not everybody here speaks French.
To answer your question, if I understood it correctly, Arthur Miller did receive information about Marilyn's death and I believe he was invited to the funeral, but he simply couldn't go. He couldn't believe Marilyn was dead, it was simply a horrible, impossible thought for him, so he couldn't force himself to go. He couldn't make himself face the fact that Marilyn had died. Joe DiMaggio and Berniece Miracle took care of the funeral arrangements. I don't think Arthur Miller was even in California at that time.
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mel76
post Aug 15 2006, 08:23 PM
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ok thanks Paju !!and sorry but i dont speak english very well and I thought there was a translator on this site but no...
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 15 2006, 11:40 PM
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I was thinking how it must have been such a horrendous shock to those around Marilyn, especially those very close to her when she died. The tape that shows Joe walking beside her casket my gosh he looked like a zombie. I didn' t know Arthur was unable to go because of such grief. They weren't divorced for very long .
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meztisa
post Aug 19 2006, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE(Lauren Michele @ Aug 15 2006, 06:40 PM) [snapback]112105[/snapback]
I was thinking how it must have been such a horrendous shock to those around Marilyn, especially those very close to her when she died. The tape that shows Joe walking beside her casket my gosh he looked like a zombie. I didn' t know Arthur was unable to go because of such grief. They weren't divorced for very long .


I always thought Joe Dimaggio took her death even harder. I mean, she was the last thought in his mind before he died. I always had the impression that he loved more than Arthur did. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif)
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Tara
post Aug 19 2006, 07:26 PM
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By the time Marilyn died, she and Arthur were not in love anymore, and he had remarried, but he still was affected by Marilyn's death as Paju said. But, his feelings were raw and he could not face going to a funeral, with the press there especially. We all respond to bereavement in personal and unexpected ways, and Arthur often seemed to be a man who wasn't comfortable with showing his feelings in public. Also, his new wife was due to give birth imminently in New York, and he probably didn't want his older kids to go through a very public funeral in LA. So perhaps it was better for him to stay away.

Whereas Joe, I think, was still in love with Marilyn - and always had been. They were very close before she died, according to most accounts. That's why it was natural that Joe would take care of the funeral arrangements, and why this usually reserved man expressed his grief so openly - because he had lost the love of his life. That's how I see it anyway.

This post has been edited by Tara: Aug 19 2006, 08:13 PM
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 19 2006, 08:49 PM
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It's very surprising to learn that Joe allowed Arthur 'to go. Arthur had a choice. I can see very much in most if not all of the photos of Arthur, you're so right Tara, that Arthur did seem like a person who did not want to show emotion. I say Joe "allowed" Arthur because I always believed that Joe took over the funeral arrangements? ...Lauren M.
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Tara
post Aug 19 2006, 08:56 PM
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It was Joe who claimed Marilyn's body, and he arranged the funeral with Berniece and Inez Melson. Arthur was not involved, but Joe invited him. Joe showed his strength of character in doing that, and never tried to shut Arthur out. Arthur's decision not to go was his own.

This post has been edited by Tara: Aug 19 2006, 08:58 PM
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Charli
post Aug 19 2006, 10:45 PM
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I once read an article on Arthur Miller, and it says that his wife was 9 months pregnant...naturally, I don't think he would want to leave his wife during this time.
I think the baby was born on August 8 (or August 6th)

Guys, Arthur wasn't a very emotional person...he left his brain damaged son in an institution for the rest of his life and never, not once visited him.
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Robby
post Aug 19 2006, 11:10 PM
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How could Arthur be so heartless!
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 20 2006, 05:09 AM
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QUOTE(Charli @ Aug 19 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]112526[/snapback]
I once read an article on Arthur Miller, and it says that his wife was 9 months pregnant...naturally, I don't think he would want to leave his wife during this time.
I think the baby was born on August 8 (or August 6th)

Guys, Arthur wasn't a very emotional person...he left his brain damaged son in an institution for the rest of his life and never, not once visited him.


Charli, how sad.
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 20 2006, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE(meztisa @ Aug 19 2006, 06:52 PM) [snapback]112511[/snapback]
I always thought Joe Dimaggio took her death even harder. I mean, she was the last thought in his mind before he died. I always had the impression that he loved more than Arthur did. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif)


Hi Felicia. I can't help but agree with you with the fact that Joe loved Marilyn undoubtfully more than probably any other man had ever loved her. He looked lost at the funeral. In shock. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/no.gif) LaurenM.
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Tara
post Aug 20 2006, 11:09 AM
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I'm not trying to excuse Arthur's actions towards his son, but I'm not going to judge him either. He was very much a man of his time in that he couldn't express his emotions that well, except in his writing. In those days, there was a stigma attached to brain-damaged children. They were not encouraged to be part of the community as happens today. It's very sad. Arthur was a very intelligent man who had a lot of integrity, but in his personal life he was as flawed as the next man.

Fortunately, Inge was always a good mother to their son. She visited him twice a week and loved and cared for him just as much as her other children, despite the difficult circumstances. Inge was a wonderful woman and I think Arthur was very lucky to meet her when he did.

This post has been edited by Tara: Aug 20 2006, 12:39 PM
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 20 2006, 03:02 PM
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Bless Inge. Not to drag this to death, but, there are alot of fathers i've seen in my life who have the capacity to put their child to the side or how can i say it, leave them behind and continue to go on and be a productive member of society. I know this because my own father did this. I may have mentioned this before that my father left and abandoned my 3 year old brother and I back in 1973. He went on and still goes on living today. People have told me that they wonder how the hell he can go on the way he does. Like for instance aunts and uncles. In order to function in life, my father i believe, had to block my brother and myself completely out. Maybe that's what Arthur had to do.
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Young
post Aug 21 2006, 04:04 AM
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Wow, Lauren. The same thing happened with my father. He chose not to acknowledge my sister and I as his children. He's alive and well; I haven't seen him in seven years.
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 21 2006, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE(Young @ Aug 21 2006, 04:04 AM) [snapback]112654[/snapback]
Wow, Lauren. The same thing happened with my father. He chose not to acknowledge my sister and I as his children. He's alive and well; I haven't seen him in seven years.



I am so sorry to hear that young. I think it's fair to say i know how you may feel. I grew up very insecure, and very angry deep inside. Counseling would have been great back then but we didn't go. As an adult, at my age now, i still hurt deep inside and feel a sense of rejection. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/throb.gif) I hope you never take it personal about what your father did. Thank you Young for opening up to me like that. ((hugs)).
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Lauren Michele
post Aug 21 2006, 06:24 AM
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(IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif) (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/balloon.gif) I am getting too off topic here. (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)
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marilyns_firstki...
post Aug 21 2006, 08:32 AM
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this is kinda off topic too, but i wonder how joe stayed in love with her after everything...i mean wasn't she seeing frank sinatra at some point, and i am sure joe heard about jfk..any thoughts?
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Tara
post Aug 21 2006, 10:22 AM
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You 've made a good point there Erin. I think when Marilyn and Joe became friends again, after she divorced Arthur, Joe was determined not to make the same mistakes as before. He knew that his jealousy and possessiveness had driven her away. After Joe and Marilyn split the first time, he saw a psychiatrist for a few months. Which was a brave thing for a man to do in the fifties, especially a man as reserved and traditional as Joe.

So, I think the Joe of 1960 was different to Joe in 1954. He still loved Marilyn, but he could see how fragile she was and he was determined not to push her, and not to judge her behaviour so harshly. When she became close to Frank, I think that hurt Joe deeply. I don't think he blamed Marilyn so much as Frank, who he had thought was his friend. Also, he felt that Frank's hard-partying lifestyle was bad for Marilyn. I don't think Marilyn loved Frank anything like as much as she cared for Joe, actually I think Frank was the one who chased her.

As for Jack Kennedy, I think that was quite a brief affair and once again, I don't think Marilyn was really in love with him. But undoubtedly she felt flattered by the president's attentions, and was excited to count the Kennedy family among her circle of friends. Of course the Rat Pack were closely linked with the Kennedys at the time, and Joe probably felt once again that she was hanging out with the wrong people, who didn't really care for her like he did.

But I think Joe felt that if he and Marilyn were to have any chance of getting back together, he would have to bide his time and just be a good friend. They weren't married, she was free to see whoever she wanted. All he could do was listen and offer his support, until she was ready to commit. It does seem that by the summer of 1962, when Marilyn's relationships with Frank and the Kennedys were deteriorating, she was growing closer to Joe again. He was talking about giving up his job and moving back to California. Maybe they could have got back together then, maybe not. But sadly he never got the chance to find out.

This post has been edited by Tara: Aug 21 2006, 11:34 AM
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marilyns_firstki...
post Aug 21 2006, 11:11 PM
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thanks for the response tara...we can always count on you for the amazing knowledge you have of marilyn! (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
i still wonder though if joe did reject her even towards the end because of the fbi file statement...that she was hurt by arthur, joe, and frank...wasn't that in june of '62? i do not doubt they had a deep love for one another, but i do think he would've lost respect for her after everything...maybe thats just because i would feel that way about someone i loved, especially if they had sex with my ex best friend!
maybe you know the answer to this so i don't have to do too much research, but when did he rescue marilyn from the hospital? i know there were pics of the two on a beach relaxing...but it could have been years before '62.
also, this is off topic,,but could you possibly explain to me the theory of a fox studio murder conspiracy..
did she have an insurance policy with fox? it is strange she was rehired and then dead a couple days later.
also one of the neighbors said they swear they saw robert kennedy walk by their window,,,or that they saw three men in suits...i think i have this right...but i wonder about some studio executives...i'll give you more of my thoughts on that a little later...seeing as how i don't want to bombard you with the 100 questions milling in my head! thanks (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/throb.gif)

just enabling my email notification here (IMG:http://www.everlasting-star.net/boards/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

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